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Home🌌Off TopicsOff Topics Main Discussion › Just Wondering about ######## NOT REGISTERING #########
01-28-2016 01:14 PM  3 years ago
conbones

rrApprentice

panama city beach FL

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i agree with the Hitler comparison. The FAA is a complete waste of money and man power. Those in the FAA, How does it feel to be a hated jackboot?
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01-28-2016 03:12 PM  3 years ago
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/01/2...drone-sighting/
U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson from Florida released a statement on the incident:

“Today’s incident is yet another example of the danger drones pose to the traveling public… Finding a way to implement the technology needed to prevent this kind of dangerous situation near our nation’s airports will be one of my top priorities.”
I thought Registration was supposed to take care of that Senator Nelson. What happened to that? I'll bet the dude flying the Quad didn't register. What's the chance it wasn't a dude flying a model airplane? Senator Nelson signed the 2012 FAA Modernization Act, https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/s15

The Feds could have fixed this but instead they would rather round all of us up, put us in a database and call it a day.
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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01-28-2016 03:31 PM  3 years ago
revmix

rrKey Veteran

NJ

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database
so what? are you embarrassed to be r/c-er?
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01-28-2016 03:34 PM  3 years ago
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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so what? are you embarrassed to be r/c-er?
What's the context of being embarrassed?
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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01-28-2016 03:37 PM  3 years ago
revmix

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NJ

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context
Certificate Holder FAreg#
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01-28-2016 03:51 PM  3 years ago
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Certificate Holder FAreg#
Have you had coffee this morning? Perhaps it would be better if you tried complete sentences that describe cogent and focused thoughts.
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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01-28-2016 04:09 PM  3 years ago
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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The FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 as passed by congress
PUBLIC LAW 112–95—FEB. 14, 2012
Public Law 112–95 112th Congress

SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—
(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community- based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
(3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program adminis- tered by a community-based organization;
(4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and (5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the
airport)).
Old Guys Rule!
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01-28-2016 04:14 PM  3 years ago
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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The June 2014 FAA Interpretation of Section 336
This is an excerpt from dronejournallaw.com:

In June 2014, the FAA issued its Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft (Section 336 above). With its Interpretation, the FAA declared, among other things:

Compensation of any sort is banned. The FAA claims that flying a drone in a manner that is "in furtherance of a business" is illegal even though no currently enforceable statute or regulation exists that would forbid it. (Remember, the FMRA does not apply to the general public.) That includes everything from the obvious (aerial photography) to the less obvious (flight instruction or demonstrations that would further one's business). Showing drone-obtained video and a company logo simultaneously online or on-air is considered "commercial." Moreover, drone flights that are "incidental to a business" (which would not be considered "commercial" in a full-size manned aircraft) are considered commercial if done with a drone.
Flights within 5 miles of any airport may be denied. Providing "notice" alone is no longer enough. You must provide prior notice to ATC or Airport Operations whenever you fly within 5 miles of any airport, heliport, etc. However, ATC may say you may not fly in that location. It is arguable that this amounts to obtaining permission as opposed to simply providing notice. Since the Interpretation doesn't specify the size of the drone to which it applies, you must call ATC even if it's a tiny, 1-ounce drone hovering 1-inch above the ground in your backyard.
Operating a drones using "first person view" ("FPV" is prohibited. This means you cannot use goggles or any modern "watch it on a monitor" system to fly, or even the long-accepted “buddy box” method where a second person (with a separate controller) observes the drone at all time while the pilot flies. Instead, the pilot's own eyes must be able to see the drone at all times while flying.
​All existing Federal Aviation Regulations apply to drones. Since the FAA considers "model aircraft" to be "aircraft," it claims that all Federal Aviation Regulations apply to drones, even though the plain language of Section 336(c) makes it abundantly clear that the definition applies only to Section 336 itself. This arguably means that all Federal Aviation Regulations, even those that cannot logically apply to an unmanned aircraft, apply to drones and the FAA can use any of those regulations for enforcement purposes.
Old Guys Rule!
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01-28-2016 04:28 PM  3 years ago
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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In Summary
Congress said that the FAA cannot regulate the model aircraft industry.

The FAA's response two years later was.... per our understanding of of the LAW... as we read the law, it simply doesn't apply to us...

Please note that my first post is a direct excerpt of the Law 112-95 112th Congress.

and my second post is from the website: http://dronelawjournal.com

IMO... This is big brother stuff. Although, $5 is nothing in this hobby. The FAA is going to need more government money and people to regulate this. The FAA is going to have its own NSA division soon.

I don't own a drone. So do you abide by the law or by the FAA?
Old Guys Rule!
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01-28-2016 04:42 PM  3 years ago
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Registration isn't going to fix this either: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/28/s...de-privacy.html

The more of this stuff there is out here the more bad stuff is going to happen. Drones give a person the ability to do things that they wouldn't normally be able to do. Registration isn't going to fix it. What the FAA should have done is to lock down access to the ready made stuff via stop codes and release codes.
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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01-28-2016 04:55 PM  3 years ago
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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I agree.

Bad guys and stupid people are not going to register.

The issue is IMO, is the FAA stepping out of bounds and is registration mandatory?

After reading the FAA's interpretation of the law, I'd say....

I'll let you decide, see post below:
Old Guys Rule!
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01-28-2016 05:02 PM  3 years ago
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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Per further research, it would appear as if the FAA in 14 CFR Part91 [Docket No. FAA-2014-0396] has redefined what a model aircraft is in an attempt to regulate the hobby.

This is a direct excerpt of the FAA’s 14 CFR Part91 [Docket No. FAA-2014-0396:

To provide guidance, the following are examples of flights that could be conducted as hobby or recreation flights and other types of flights that would not be hobby or recreation.

Hobby or Recreation
Flying a model aircraft at the local model aircraft club.
Taking photographs with a model aircraft for personal use.
Using a model aircraft to move a box from point to point without any kind of compensation.
Viewing a field to determine whether crops need water when they are grown for personal enjoyment

Not Hobby or Recreation
Receiving money for demonstrating aerobatics with a model aircraft.
A realtor using a model aircraft to photograph a property that he is trying to sell and using the photos in the property’s real estate listing.
A person photographing a property or event and selling the photos to someone else.
Delivering packages to people for a fee.
Determining whether crops need to be watered that are grown as part of commercial farming operation.

Operations that meet the section 336 definition of “model aircraft” must also meet the five additional criteria for model aircraft established in section 336(a) to be exempt from future rulemaking regarding model aircraft.

end of excerpt

After reading that, I’m thinking that the FAA doesn’t have any authority over the weekend flyer, drone or not.

The fact that they appear to be adding their own requirements in order for it to be considered a hobby, baffles me somewhat. First they say you have to be a a "Club field". Then they say its ok to take photos of your recreational crops? Any one growing crops at their clubs field?

Edit:
For you guys thinking, I fit into the not a hobby category. Try writing that off on your tax return, and the IRS will send you a letter telling you that its a HOBBY, and not deductible.
Old Guys Rule!
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01-28-2016 05:04 PM  3 years ago
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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There is a legal case pending. Let's see how it goes.Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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01-28-2016 05:44 PM  3 years ago
Zaneman007

rrElite Veteran

Texas - USA

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One more point to note
Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 as passed by congress
PUBLIC LAW 112–95—FEB. 14, 2012
Public Law 112–95 112th Congress

The above is a Law, period.

While the document below:

"FAA in 14 CFR Part91 [Docket No. FAA-2014-0396]"

Is the FAA's interpretation of public law 112-95 as passed by the 112th Congress on Feb. 14, 2012.

IMO - written in an attempt to regulate what congress has told them they are prohibited from regulating by law.

There will be more than one legal case pending. Problem is they are using tax payer money to defend themselves while growing their departments.

End result is the harassment of the average joe who registers.

Sorry about that, I'm getting off my high horse now.
Old Guys Rule!
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01-28-2016 10:22 PM  3 years ago
Mike0251

rrVeteran

Hills of the Blue Ridge VA

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Thanks for the in-depth comprehensive commentary and meaningful contribution to this thread! Although it may be a bit to in-depth for Rvmx to comprehend
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01-28-2016 10:29 PM  3 years ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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If you keep your post long enough maybe he won't reply spending time, paying attention
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01-28-2016 10:47 PM  3 years ago
billybob

rrVeteran

Torrance, CA

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ONLY U.S Congress can make laws...not the FAA. FAA can write regulations till they are blue in the face but still doesn't make it legal law. Congress has told the FAA to leave the hobbyist alone but they continue with thier bull****. The truth is that the FAA is shrinking and under funded and is trying to justify its self, Homeland Security is gobbling up all the agencies and the FAA will be going extinct. As far as safety goes...ask this question, is the FAA trying to enforce regulations that require standards of the airworthiness of your multicopter? or, are they trying to enforce regulations for the safety of the public I.E terrorism...which would be Homeland security jurisdiction. FAA could give a rats ass about the airworthiness of your model.

Airlines have outsourced heavy maintenance of Commercial jets to communist countries with known ties to terrorists for many years that have little to almost no FAA over site and the government does nothing..why..MONEY,MONEY..MOOOONNEYYYY, public safety is a non factor. FAA has been paid off,lobbyists have paid law makers.
The FAA should be focusing on bringing heavy airline maintenance back on U.S soil, but instead chooses to focus on this petty, chicken **** hobby...WHY...the AMA is an easy target and the FAA wants a piece or all of the action. The AMA is a non factor and will be stepped on by the FAA until Congress tells the FAA to go shuve it. AMA is only concearned with them selves and doesn't want to loose membership money so they are cooperating with the FAA all while telling the members they are fighting for them.
Some one said the AMA is am insurance company..they're not, they are a third party, if you have a claim they will make you go through your home owners insurance if you're a homeowner, if not, they refer you to separate insurance that they are "affiliated" with, been through this..I know. AMA just takes your dues has a sprawling Headquarters and bloated salaries for the ones running this dog and pony show.

Modelers are scared easy any time they see the word Federal slapped in front of something...it's just a word. If you want to send a message, get some solidarity and all 180000 plus members NOT renew membership with AMA next year and of course no registration with FAA. That would send the biggest message and you wouldn't have to even get your ass of the couch to do this...just do nothing.

O, by the way, went out flying today with my fleet of unregistered moels (2 quads,2 helis), flew at the field for a couple hours, cops driving by as usual.. he just waved and kept driving.

Again, laws are made by Congress, then they have to be enforced, enforcing law requires man power and MONEY which would have to come from the taxpayer. Congress is going to have justify spending for enforcement of toy drones...sounds like it may be a tough sell to the taxpayer, if it wasn't I'm sure it would be law already. Something really big is going to have to happen before congress steps on the hobbyist..like 911 big.
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01-28-2016 11:16 PM  3 years ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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billybob your post should be made into a sticky thread

+1
O, by the way, went out flying today with my fleet of unregistered moels (2 quads,2 helis), flew at the field for a couple hours, cops driving by as usual.. he just waved and kept driving.
meanwhile the sheep are registered. Don't real men play with toys anymore
spending time, paying attention
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01-29-2016 12:45 AM  3 years ago
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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Hey revmix:
Perhaps it would be better if you tried complete sentences that describe cogent and focused thoughts.
thank you Terry - I've been biting my virtual tongue to respond to his disconnected and disjointed jibbering.

Please - for the sake of intellectually interesting conversation - please make complete and straight forward posts. The wider the audience, the more clear the communication needs to be. The internet is a pretty wide audience.
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01-29-2016 01:15 AM  3 years ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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The internet is a pretty wide audience.
World wide
spending time, paying attention
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