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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › The Spin Continues...(Excellent read)
12-07-2015 03:50 PM  33 months agoPost 41
1helimech

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NW Fla....

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1911 .45 or .357 or CZ 75 9mm DON'T leave home with out it....WHATS IN YOUR HOLSTER ??? ( Crimson Trace green dot equipped)

I dream of a better world, A world where a chicken's crossing a road IS NOT questioned

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12-07-2015 04:01 PM  33 months agoPost 42
ssmith512

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Indianapolis, IN USA

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WHATS IN YOUR HOLSTER ???
Springfield XD-S flavored in .45cal with 230g JHP to make it go bang.

Steve

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12-07-2015 05:18 PM  33 months agoPost 43
1helimech

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NW Fla....

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I dream of a better world, A world where a chicken's crossing a road IS NOT questioned

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12-08-2015 02:05 AM  33 months agoPost 44
Aaron29

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USA

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If there were some probable cause to the do not fly list, or avenue for redress when you discover you're placed on the list, then OK, I'd support this. But as the Do Not Fly list goes, many people get added to it, many have no idea they are even on it, only discovering so when they are denied access, many have no idea why they are on it, and all have no redress to be removed from it.

Ripe as hell for abuse and mismanagement. Remember our rights, it is up to the government, NOT US, to make a case for our guilt or innocence. Innocent until proven. That's the law.

This would violate the heck out of Amendments 2 and 4.

Not to make light of the dangers we face, but do you guys have any idea how unlimited the infringements on our civil rights would have to be to eliminate all public dangers? Any idea how controlled things would have to be? I'm thinking 1984 before ALL public danger could be eliminated. So we can take measures, but "we have to do more" is ALWAYS going to be a recipe for further loss of freedom.

There is a price to pay for freedom - eternal vigilance. If you pass that job onto someone else, they will own you.

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12-08-2015 02:22 AM  33 months agoPost 45
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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Well said Aaron.

Let's remember, this is a Do-Not-Fly-List. At best it is list of people that may not need to board a commercial airliner. Given bad-guy's propensity for blowing up airliners, I suppose a list of people that should be restricted access to them, might be of some value.

To then use that list to advance your gun control agenda is repugnant. How many other things would you like to use the No-Fly-List for?

Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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12-08-2015 02:30 AM  33 months agoPost 46
Aaron29

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USA

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Given bad-guy's propensity for blowing up airliners, I suppose a list of people that should be restricted access to them, might be of some value.
See this is where we just can't know. No specific probable cause has to be given by agencies that place you on this list.

Question is, how good stewardship does this program have? We know NOTHING about what qualifies you to be added to this list.

I don't want to go the other way, where we turn aviation into a free for all out of fear of catching a few dolphins in our tuna net. The DNF list is not a constitutional issue, IMO. Flying isn't a right. So the DNF list, by itself, fine. But you can't extrapolate that list to infringe on other rights.

Because when the list goes from revoking a privilege (aviation travel) to revoking someone's Bill of Rights, there's a big gap that's been traversed there.

Turns out, some D-Bag sold these two Jihadists their guns, so none of this would apply anyway. But that's been the liberal way - they have all sorts of solutions (that were thought up WELL before the problem - like decades ago) that they like to throw at us that would not have stopped the attacks. They have their agenda, and use events to push it. Disgusting. Not one of their proposals would have stopped ANY of the attacks we have seen. Period.

So yes, we're resisting restrictions on the law abiding because of your failed policies. I'm not certain how it came to be that protecting the bill of rights earned you scorn, but this is the new age.

It may be that the republic will fail. Because people who are handed freedom, as opposed to having sacrificed to obtain it, aren't good stewards of freedom. They have no idea how bad things could be. They don't pay attention to world events or history. Sad. Good thing I'll be dead in thirty or so years because I don't like where this is going. But that's admittedly a selfish apathy because our progeny will have to face what's coming. But still, what can I ethically do? I put it all on the line when called on by my country, but now I'm at a loss as to how to secure our freedoms tomorrow. Because what exactly can one man do on his own soil after his words are expended? Nay, I feel that I'm exonerated by giving everything that I ethically can at this point. Still, I have a feeling our distant progeny will look back with scorn at our generation for so easily handing away the freedoms that were secured with so much sacrifice. When generations from now, soft tyranny turns to hard, they'll fight and suffer for what we wrought. Kind of shameful when you think about it.

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12-08-2015 02:55 AM  33 months agoPost 47
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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Aaron... I don't think we are in disagreement. I share your reservations.

I will add, as an international airline pilot, I freely admit my view of the no-fly list is probably not the same as others. As someone who flies 700+ hours a year over the North Atlantic with 230 strangers in the back, I see a need for someone thinking about who gets on these things.

If you tried to set a shoe bomb off on the last flight, should you be free to board another flight? If you got drunk on the last flight and tried to open the cabin door, should you be allowed to march off to your connection? If you slap a flight attendant and we divert to Boston, should you be sold another ticket for two days later?

After 15,000 hours and many years with the airlines, there needs to be a list. I don't know who should keep the list and I don't know what kind of redress there is but there should be a list.

But as you suggest, this is a very slippery slope and it begins with using the list to advance your political agenda. As it appears right now, the Federal Government is Judge, Jury and Executioner for the list and there are politicians leveraging that.

I find that unacceptable.

Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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12-08-2015 03:01 AM  33 months agoPost 48
Aaron29

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USA

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Nope. We're not even in the slightest disagreement. I agree with the DNF list. Just don't extrapolate it to mean anything else.

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12-08-2015 03:12 AM  33 months agoPost 49
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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To be placed on that list with no notification at all is so ripe for abuse that it's sickening and very dangerous.

Do we even know the actual person that puts someone on that no fly list? What agency he/she works for? Where and who do they get their orders from? What is the actual law for the no fly list? Who wrote it? Was it approved by congress? Did the prez sign it into law? Was it part of the patriot act?

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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12-08-2015 03:15 AM  33 months agoPost 50
Aaron29

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USA

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"Patriot Act"

That name beguiles the fact that it is one giant Fourth and Fifth amendment infringement.

And no one cares. GOP owns that one so this issue of the constitution being used as toilet paper transcends party.

That said, flying isn't a right, so as long s they don't extrapolate this list's purpose, I hold no grudge. But look what's happening now, eh?

And still the people are asleep.

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12-08-2015 03:26 AM  33 months agoPost 51
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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12-08-2015 03:36 AM  33 months agoPost 52
Aaron29

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USA

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In a 2010 report, the Government Accountability Office noted that "Membership in a terrorist organization does not prohibit a person from possessing firearms or explosives under current federal law," and individuals on the No Fly List are not barred from purchasing guns.[19]
At first glance, people are shocked by this. OMG are you kidding me they are part of a terrorist group we can't let them have guns!

But this is when they are thinking "terrorist group" = Al Queda/ISIS etc.

When "terrorist group" is expanded to the Oathkeepers and other constitutional rights groups, maybe we'll start to question whether we want to restrict "terrorists" from owning guns.

If that doesn't happen, maybe when "terrorist group" is expanded to include a particular religion or opposition political party as a whole, just maybe, maybe, we'll see how problematic it is to restrict "terrorists" from owning guns.

Remember folks, the government will have FULL discretion on labeling a terrorist group. If you don't see the problem with that, you have issues.

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12-08-2015 11:35 AM  33 months agoPost 53
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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is it really that big of a stretch today to imagine this admin (or the next if it's Clinton) placing anyone voting R on the DNF list... hence creating defacto gun control??? I can certainly see this admin trying it. And even if it eventually failed in SCOTUS, it would take years to get there. And I think THAT is exactly why they brought it up as a possibility.

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12-09-2015 07:44 PM  33 months agoPost 54
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Some info on the shooters, defiantly planned terrorist attack.
.
.
http://americanactionnews.com/artic...ardino-shooters

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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