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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › perfectly level and funtioning swash until I apply throttle...
11-29-2015 05:40 AM  36 months agoPost 1
Mikwilly

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Victoria

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I have a Trex 450 sport with 3G wireless flybarless. This is the first time I have set one up, but I have done a lot of research and I feel I have all the pieces of the puzzle.

I did have to add some subtrim before swash leveling. The servo arm will not go horizontal otherwise.

After getting servos horizontal, I went through my swash leveling (perfectly level from 0 - 100% throttle), pitch adjustment is -3.0 - +9 degrees with my pitch curve set up. Then I did my initializing and followed everything to a tee. I am confident that I did it correctly but could have missed something.

When I power up the unit the swash is completely level at all positions. The swash moves as it should when no throttle is applied. BUT, When I do apply throttle the swash starts to tilt to the right and slightly to the back. I can give a minimal amount of input, left and forward and it will hold the swash level, but as soon as I let go, it starts to tip again.

Any ideas? Is the subtrim causing the issue?

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11-29-2015 05:44 AM  36 months agoPost 2
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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An Align 3G is an old unit. Do you have a photo of what you have?

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11-29-2015 06:05 AM  36 months agoPost 3
Mikwilly

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Victoria

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Yes, it is the very old Align 3G. Here is a photo

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11-29-2015 03:00 PM  36 months agoPost 4
revmix

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NJ

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setup has to be done with 0 sub-trim, regardless of servo arm centering [linkage to swashplate can be adjusted],
after initializing 3G trim can be added if needed

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11-29-2015 03:36 PM  36 months agoPost 5
Mikwilly

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Victoria

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Okay, thanks revmix, I will give that a try.

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11-29-2015 05:34 PM  36 months agoPost 6
revmix

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NJ

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also the throttle/collective must be at mid-stick [50%] when calibrating cyclic E.LIM & A.LIM travel

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11-29-2015 09:30 PM  36 months agoPost 7
Mikwilly

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Victoria

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Yes, I got that. Do you have personal experience with setting up the 3G? Is that how you know that you can not have subtrim when initializing.

I am just concerned that the linkages will not be long enough to compensate for leveling the swash. One of them is fairly off. Maybe in need to try different servo horns to get it closer to horizontal?

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11-29-2015 09:53 PM  36 months agoPost 8
revmix

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NJ

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0 trim is mentioned in the instruction manual,
if the servo linkages are too short then the swashplate could be lowered a bit with the 2 pitch-link rods [by a few turns of both ball links] between grips & rotating swash

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11-29-2015 10:04 PM  36 months agoPost 9
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Where is the actual sensor unit mounted, and how (how many layers of double-sided tape, and what kind of double-sided tape did you use) is it mounted to the airframe?

The symptoms of the swashplate moving as the motor and head spin up are indicative of vibrations in the airframe finding their way to the sensor.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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11-29-2015 10:24 PM  36 months agoPost 10
revmix

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NJ

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swash starts to tilt to the right and slightly to the back
could be that the linkage ball is not in the same hole [distance] on one of the 3 servo horns,
test check how the swash works [collective & cyclic] without the motor running [no vibration or electrical interference]

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11-30-2015 01:42 AM  36 months agoPost 11
Mikwilly

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Victoria

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Where is the actual sensor unit mounted, and how (how many layers of double-sided tape, and what kind of double-sided tape did you use) is it mounted to the airframe?
It is on the main frame under the tail boom. It only has 1 layer of tape. I bought this used and it is how it came. I have some double sided tape and it has been suggested that I may benefit by multiple layers. Does it really matter which kind it is?
Cheers,
Mike

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11-30-2015 02:15 AM  36 months agoPost 12
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Two layers, 3M Gray, double-sided tape is what I'd use.

As for using Sub Trims -- YOU CAN, and you SHOULD. The following is from the 3G manual -- note the text in the RED Circle...

Once you go through the set-up process, if you should ever change the original sub-trim settings, you MUST go through the set-up process again.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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11-30-2015 02:25 AM  36 months agoPost 13
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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FWIW...
You only adjust SUB-Trim when in DIRect Mode.

You can use TRIM AFTER completing the set up.

~~~~~~

Does the swash correct with opposite direction when tilting heli on its pitch and roll axis?

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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11-30-2015 03:00 AM  36 months agoPost 14
Mikwilly

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Victoria

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FWIW...
You only adjust SUB-Trim when in DIRect Mode.
You can use TRIM AFTER completing the set up.
~~~~~~
Does the swash correct with opposite direction when tilting heli on its pitch and roll axis?
Yes, I did it in DIR and yes the swash responds correctly in all directions. Thanks
Two layers, 3M Gray, double-sided tape is what I'd use.

As for using Sub Trims -- YOU CAN, and you SHOULD. The following is from the 3G manual -- note the text in the RED Circle...

Once you go through the set-up process, if you should ever change the original sub-trim settings, you MUST go through the set-up process again.
Great, that is the stuff I just ran out and got...will try a double layer. I was a little confused about why everyone was saying not to sub-trim since it says it in the manual. Thanks for your post.

FYI I tried spooling up with the blades off and the swash seemed much more stable. The blades are balanced though, I checked. Perhaps with the extra foam tape, the vibes with the blades on will be minimized.

How tight are the blade grips supposed to be? I have only had Blade heli's until now and they were supposed to be just loose enough so they fall with gravity. With this heli, they are supposed to be tighter though right?

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11-30-2015 03:54 AM  36 months agoPost 15
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Blades -- a bit tighter than the "fall with gravity" thing. They should not fall simply through gravity alone, just a smidge tighter so that a small shake causes them to move. Don't expect them to fall completely.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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11-30-2015 04:34 AM  36 months agoPost 16
revmix

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NJ

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hobby fix
trial & error

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11-30-2015 10:40 AM  36 months agoPost 17
Propilot

rrNovice

Red Deer,Alberta,canada

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The picture shows the unit mounted on the side of the machine....
if i,am seeing it correctly.
I have a700 with 3GX and the manual says to mount it face up or
face down and not on the side of the frame and with the arrow
pointing towards the nose or the tail.
If you don,t see the arrow be side the set button then consider
the end of the case where the servos plug in to be the back end
of the arrow. And this end must face to the nose or to the tail.
One other very important point I found out after spending lots &
lots of time watching all these different guys on Youtube setting
up 3GX and nooo body said any thing about static electrolytic
messing up your inputs when you go to press the set button.
I just recently seen a you tube vid and this guy was talking about
his heli and about the chrome case on the 3GX being sensitive to
static electrolytic and the way the electronics was installed the
static could affect the settings.
Now i know why i was having such a hard time setting it up!
Took a lot of work but mine are all black plastic cases now.
I all ways wonder why Ron Lund in his You Tube vid on 3GX set up,
used such a long pointer and was so careful when he touched the
set button.

Wayne Mitchell

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11-30-2015 12:45 PM  36 months agoPost 18
Dee Flies 3D

rrApprentice

Farmington Hls, Mich - USA

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Getting the tail right can be an issue. I still have 2 of these 3G's one in service & the other not.
Getting the adapter to connect this to a PC might be difficult, due to the age of it..
Since this is NOT a 3GX, the mounting of the small sensor is important. The larger box with the gain pots can be mounted wherever practical - orient for best access...

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11-30-2015 01:09 PM  36 months agoPost 19
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Propilot - the FBL unit in question here is the original two-piece Align 3G unit, not the second generation one-piece 3GX. This controller has the gyro amplifier electronics in the package you see in the picture while the actual 3-axis sensor is a smaller cube that is hidden in the picture.

This is the 3G:

-----

"Static electrolytic"??? You must mean static electricity.

Too bad you spent all that time and effort removing the finish from your 3GX units. It is a waste of time. The key to 3GX performance is feeding it clean power from a source capable of supplying the amps needed to run the servos under all conditions. The power source to the 3GX wants to be at least 6 volts for proper operation. I had 12 3GX units up and flying regularly with nothing more than a decent power source.

Since this thread is about the 3G unit, your post is irrelevant.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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12-01-2015 11:21 PM  35 months agoPost 20
revmix

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NJ

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any progress of figuring out 3G problem?

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