RunRyder RC
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 3313 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Mikado VBAR Control System › Considering Vcontrol; list of quirks?
12-10-2015 05:58 PM  35 months agoPost 21
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The only bummer I can find is not being able to use my vcontrol on my old flybar heli. I only have one. Haven't flown it in a few years. I have been wanting to bring it back to life, but I would need to by a new transmitter.
You can. It just is not cheap. Basically buy a Neo and then turn it off.

http://www.vstabi.info/forum/read.php?42,141455

if it ain't broke, break it.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-10-2015 06:04 PM  35 months agoPost 22
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The security switch is an enigma of its own. Ron mentions in one of his videos briefly, but really should have some explanation for someone new to the radio (I wish someone had typed this up before me—would have saved me a few hours of hair pulling)

As anyone already with a vcontrol knows, the security switch is simply a secondary throttle hold. Why it is labeled as a 'local' switch when it is absolutely mandatory to have properly set up is a mystery to me. I can only guess that Mikado just ran out of screen real estate on the mandatory screen and bumped it to the nearly empty 'local switches' screen. So, as confusing as that is--it MUST be set up properly or you'll never spool up your blades.

But, that's not the least of the confusion.

In practice, this security function *can* be assigned to a switch OR it can be set as a function manually toggled on and off as a menu-level item. But, the terms Mikado chose to use in implementing this is beyond unintuitive. And, the absence of any meaningful documentation on usage and definitions of terms it is beyond comprehension. The entirety of the instruction for this function is:
[Local Sw screen] also contains a Security switch, which acts as a safety feature to double-lock the heli agains accidental spool-up. Select if you want to use this feature and assign a switch. The Switches panel as well as the main screen show a padlock icon which indicates whether the safety is disabled (open padlock as shown below) or enabled
As they say in the development world, even bad documentation is better than none. I’ll try to make sense of this mess here.

There are 4 columns on the Local sw screen. From left to right:
Name of the function (Par lock, Security)
Switch/or virtual switch assignment (1-6, On, Off)
Normal/reverse function (Norm, Rev)
a read-only column showing the current status of the function (for security switch: Active, Secure)

Designating a switch is simple. Scroll over to the switch assignment field in the Security row (shown as ‘On’ in the graphic above) and choose the appropriate switch number. A graphic arrow identifies which switch on the radio corresponds to each number as chosen. Making a selection of On or Off allows you to toggle the status of security from the Local Sw screen rather than using a physical switch. But, the terms On/Off in this case are completely arbitrary. They merely refer to two states of the virtual switch. A more logical name might have been Position A and Position B, or Up and Down, or Left and Right. Anything but On and Off.

Once you've assigned a real switch, or a virtual switch state (either On or Off, it doesn’t really matter), you assign the Normal or Rev function to that switch (or virtual switch) so that the status of the function matches your real switch position preference. The status of the security functrion is actively displayed in the fourth column.

But, this fourth column just drives us further down the enigmatic rabbit hole. Why did Mikado choose the terms Active and Secure? The terms are not opposites….why not Active/Inactive or Secure/Insecure? Better yet, why not just use the icon of the lock that is shown on the main screen. That way there is some tie-in with how you program the function and what you see while it is in use? As it stands we are left wondering whether the terms refer to the status of the function, or the transmitter output? If the security function is Active, then that would mean T/H is On. If the transmitter is Active that would mean T/H is Off. Without documentation we just guess.

Ok, after some fiddling around we learn that Mikado's definition of Active means: The transmitter’s throttle function is active (secondary hold is off). Secure means: The transmitter throttle function is inactive (secondary hold is on). You can’t tell this from the setup screen though. You have to exit to the main screen to see if the little lock icon is displayed. Brilliant.

In short, the security switch is apparently a popular item in Europe. Jeti radios have this. The vcontrol has it. Probably others that I’ve never used. But, in my 12 years of flying these things at clubs and fun flys across the U.S. I’ve never seen one pilot with a secondary throttle hold. So, my instinct was to disable it. To do this, set the Security switch to On or Off (doesn’t really matter), set the Norm or Rev switch to whichever provides a status of Active in the fourth column. Verify there is NO lock icon on the main screen to the right of the date. And, go fly.

if it ain't broke, break it.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-15-2015 02:44 AM  35 months agoPost 23
waheed1998

rrApprentice

baltimore,md

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This radio is everything to me and more with rescue u can't tell me i can't throw down a little.I haven't brought any crash parts in a year.Now all i do miss is the 5.3 software interface, when you hover over a parameter it would explain what this parameters would do.

anthony jackson

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-21-2015 09:18 PM  35 months agoPost 24
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Adding two more to the list:

1. Switch position. Yes, you can program the location of functions to any switch desired. The software is very flexible. But, two of the switches have a momentary/spring return which makes them unsuitable for some functions.

Specifically, I have flown JR/Spektrum since getting in to helis in '04. Every JR or Spektrum radio I have put my hands on has T/H on the back right switch. I have a good deal of muscle memory and an ingrained preference for hand position on a radio. However, because the back right is the location of a momentary switch, it is unsuitable for Vcontrol's mandatory 3 position motor switch. The spring return would fall on either off or on--neither of which is practical.

There are several remedies:

a) learn a new preference (not willing to risk not finding T/H in a panic--so, not a good option for me)
b) if you want a long switch (like JR/Spektrum), buy a 3rd party switch with 3 positions, and solder it up inside the radio. Mikado does not offer a long switch without spring release. It's only a 15 minute job for someone with good soldering skills. And ~$15 for a new switch. I was unable to find an exactly matching switch though--but, that's largely cosmetic....especially if you use switch covers
c) just swap switches 4 and 5. Ultimately, that's what I ended up doing. Shouldn't be much of a problem that the short toggle is in the back, since I fly with my finger on it anyway. But, it would have been nice to be able to have it long somehow...maybe an extension like truck drivers use.
d) one other option is to assign the security lock on the stock back right position and use that for emergency T/H situations, leaving the motor run switch somewhere else. But, because the spring return is in the full pull position, T/H on would have to be the middle spot, with security active being in full push. I opted not to use this so that motor idle is available on the same switch as where I'm used to using T/H. I also didn't like the tactile feeling of overshooting T/H in to the spring return.

2. Lack of a way to quickly find your switch assignments.

It's nice that the mandatory, local, and optional switch menus are all in one place in the TX setup heading. But, optional switches are just given a letter name. To actually learn which function you have assigned to them you have to go digging through the menus (and remember all of the functions that can be assigned---did you miss one? hope not). There is no way to quickly know if you have two functions assigned to the same switch. You could easily assign rescue and screenshot to the same switch unintentionally, which could be a little surprising if you're trying to take a screenshot in flight. My point is, it would be handy to see function assignments in one place.

if it ain't broke, break it.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-14-2016 11:28 PM  32 months agoPost 25
readytofly

rrNovice

tuvalu

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

to me, having bought this radio has been the most frustating experience i've ever had in rc. in no way it can be paired to a real radio, like my futaba 8fg.
-flight feels robotic, whatever the reason is;
-that huge long stiff non foldable antenna is just pita;
-there is no independent values for aileron and elevator rates. every radio in the market provides that, except vcontrol;
-the radio is bulky with square sides. ergonomics is horrendous;
-sticks can't be shortened. the minimum stick length in vcontrol amounts to medium to long size in other radios;
-there is one long menu for everything. there should be many, grouped by purpose, just like futaba's.
-pitch curve has 5 mandatory points and i can't disable any of them so that i have only 3, for example, just like any average radio in the market do;
-battery drops absurdly quickly. this is the most power-draining radio i've ever had. charge is quick to be honest, but soon i'll have a bad charge plug (some people are already reporting it) due to frequent charging;
-so far the only impressive feature to me is the vibration analyzer.
the only reason i didn't sell it yet is the hope that some breakthrough feature will be released soon, making it justifiable having bought it.
if you didn't buy one yet, don't waste your money on it.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2016 08:05 PM  32 months agoPost 26
nickwap

rrVeteran

Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

flight feels robotic, whatever the reason is;
This is your set up
-that huge long stiff non foldable antenna is just pita;
Your opinion
-there is no independent values for aileron and elevator rates. every radio in the market provides that, except vcontrol;
Yes there is it's just not called 'RATES'
-the radio is bulky with square sides. ergonomics is horrendous;
Your opinion
-sticks can't be shortened. the minimum stick length in vcontrol amounts to medium to long size in other radios;
Mine adjust and you can get different sticks as an optional extra
-there is one long menu for everything. there should be many, grouped by purpose, just like futaba's.
Your opinion
-pitch curve has 5 mandatory points and i can't disable any of them so that i have only 3, for example, just like any average radio in the market do;
Its not an average radio, I prefer to fly the heli not the TX
-battery drops absurdly quickly. this is the most power-draining radio i've ever had.
Incorrect,
The percentage is based on the usable voltage range of the battery. So at 0% it has the designed empty voltage of 3.5V. The Battery is not flat at this level and has about one hour runtime. But it starts to damage the chemistry slightly.
The Warning starts at 15% level, which is about 1,5h before the 0% state.
If you start a flight when the warning is already on, it is no problem. But the permanent warn sound will probably be not pleasant during the flight
If connected, the transmitter will not shutdown on low voltage. The Idea is, that its better to damage the battery a bit, rather than crash the model. If not connected, it shuts down at 0% gracefully.

Nick

"Give me another one, this one's broke!"

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2016 09:45 PM  32 months agoPost 27
hemp

rrApprentice

Portland, OR - US

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

On the NEOs, both the tailrotor AND cyclic rates become slower for a given agility number.
This has been addressed with software updates. And I believe they're still tweaking the concept, trying to find the simplest way to provide a foolproof setting while still enabling the extreme rates people desire.


Team MikadoUSA
Revolectrix Ambassador

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-19-2016 01:19 AM  32 months agoPost 28
readytofly

rrNovice

tuvalu

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

all my 5 helis fly mikado vbar. i'm used to set them up and love the way the fly. with my futaba i'm able to make tiny adjustments and dial things in. so far, until vcontrol.
other than me, there are 3 mates in my flying field who`s sold their vcontrol after only a few flights. i wasn't smart enough to understand the ''signs'' and insisted in buying one, and, oh boy, how i regret it. don't waste your time or money on it. apart from the vib analyzer, just a pretty face that works really poorly.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-19-2016 01:30 AM  32 months agoPost 29
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What are you talking about "works poorly". Either you didn't take the time to learn how to use it or you had some serious setup issues..

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-19-2016 04:24 AM  32 months agoPost 30
jjeaster222000

rrVeteran

Bedford in

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I love my v control radio.. it has served me well and I think if you took the time to learn the radio then you would love it. I have had futaba and JR but really love the v control.

Team Synergy

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2016 08:13 PM  32 months agoPost 31
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Everything I read or hear about this is the "teach an old dog new trick " syndrome . When V Bar first came out (after the bulky first version ) people did the same thing . Now after everyone has adapted vbar is the best thing since sliced bread . The V tx will be the same way . Mikado is at the TOP of this game and continues to innovate .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2016 09:30 PM  32 months agoPost 32
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That's kinda the point of the thread. I wanted a heads up of all the stuff that was new/different so I knew what I was getting in to. But also a list of things that you simply can't do (at least not without throwing extra money at it), or require special workarounds.

I think it served that purpose very well. I'm very happy with the vcontrol. But the research beforehand definitely had me prepared to convert my fleet with minimal down time.

if it ain't broke, break it.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2016 02:33 PM  31 months agoPost 33
AndyH

rrKey Veteran

Rockledge, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I too found the par lock thing a real pain in the butt. Took me forever to figure that one out. That was the biggest annoyance for me.

The only other thing I had problems with was setting esc endpoints's without pro software. With pro it was easy without a nightmare...

Overall I love my Vcontrol. Being able to adjust everything right there and the super well done and easy setup is awesome!

This hobby is like Kryptonite to chicks!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2016 09:19 PM  31 months agoPost 34
readytofly

rrNovice

tuvalu

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

could you explain the par lock thing, please? i have mine disabled (i think) cause i have no idea what it is for...(a second throttle hold)?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2016 09:26 PM  31 months agoPost 35
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I explained it the best I could 2nd post at the top of this page...though I called it security lock. Also it is a bit ranty, but that was intentional. Let me know if its not clear enough.

if it ain't broke, break it.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2016 10:20 PM  31 months agoPost 36
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Parameter lock is a way for you to flip a switch and change a parameter in flight. If you hit it inadvertently, you can change values.
The security switch is like another throttle hold...

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2016 10:50 PM  31 months agoPost 37
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ah, my bad. I still get par lock and security lock terms mixed up in my head.

Ron is right on with the description of parameter lock.

The only thing I'd add is that the knobs auto-assign to the function you are adjusting at the time AND they are temporary for that powered session AND the knob positions are absolute.

That is to say, if you are in the main rotor agility menu AND the parameter lock is turned off, then turning the knob will automatically assign that knob to that setting for the duration of that session (until you turn off the vcontrol)

To explain the term absolute as it pertains to the knobs might take an example.

Imagine you've painted a white reference line on the knobs and while adjusting rotor agility you came up with a setting that put the white line at the 12 o'clock position and gave you a value of 62.

Then, suppose you've repowered the vcontrol and gone in to tail yaw and used the same knob. When you adjust the yaw to your liking, the white line is now at the 4 o'clock position.

Now, let's imagine you go back to rotor agility one more time to make a little tweak. As soon as you touch the knob (which is still at 4 o'clock because of the tail setting you made above) the rotor agility setting will jump up to whatever absolute value 4 o'clock represents here. I can't tell you exactly what it will be. But, it will most certainly NOT be 62.

The upshot of this is you MUST make a mental note of your existing settings prior to assigning the parameter knob. Because if you've used that knob for anything else the value will immediately jump to whatever the position of the knob equates to in that setting, and you'll have to dial it back down (to the 12 o'clock position in this example) before you lift off.

This almost warrants a video. That's a lot to try and comprehend from reading when it would make a lot of quick sense to see someone do it. Let me know if you want me to...I can try to make one this afternoon if you think it would help.

if it ain't broke, break it.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2016 11:18 PM  31 months agoPost 38
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The one gripe I have, the knob is not digital, it is analog. If you have a value of 62 and you have the knob at the 12 o'clock position, it will drop it to 59 when you flip the switch. I wish the knob was digital and it remembered your previous setting. I don't use it, I choose to just go to the parameter and adjust with the big knob in flight, easier for me

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-08-2016 12:15 AM  31 months agoPost 39
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks Ron. You summed up in one paragraph what I took 5 to do.

To paraphrase Pascal

I would have typed up a shorter post, but I didn't have the time.

if it ain't broke, break it.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 3313 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Mikado VBAR Control System › Considering Vcontrol; list of quirks?
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 10  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, November 20 - 6:08 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online