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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Lets make this "Its CNCed" clear
09-03-2015 02:27 PM  3 years agoPost 21
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Hirobo. There's a company I hope makes a recovery.

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09-03-2015 03:01 PM  3 years agoPost 22
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Any pictures of such machine?
Sure, plenty. There are a total of 56 axes of motion available on this machine tool.

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09-03-2015 03:09 PM  3 years agoPost 23
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Still.... on the whole. The world functions better on CNC parts and the cost is reduced because fewer man-hours are involved.

The overall production is more uniform and parts interchange. It takes a long time to make a great machinist and even they make mistakes.

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09-03-2015 03:45 PM  3 years agoPost 24
IYKIST

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London united kingdom

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Hirobo. There's a company I hope makes a recovery
I hope they do, I have had hirobo parts machined wrong or the tool slipped.

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09-03-2015 05:01 PM  3 years agoPost 25
fastflyer20

rrKey Veteran

N. Tonawanda, NY

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Google Schutte USA, under multi-spindle PC is a nice video showing the layout and a 8 spindle CNC screw machine. They are over a million dollars and are the highest production machines made. Commonly used in the automotive industry. Very different and way more complex than a single spindle CNC.

Tom
CAUTION - my posts are based on my experiences, yours may be different.

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09-03-2015 07:43 PM  3 years agoPost 26
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Watch at YouTube

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09-04-2015 05:03 AM  3 years agoPost 27
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Thought my friend Ron was being disparaged...my mistake.

In addition to being a master machinist, he is also a professional mechanical engineer.

While he might not have the most advanced CNC machines, he is expert at getting the "most" out of his machines.

I am an engine collector....and his engines are "collectors" items.

Everyone's heard of the "Cox Babe B"?...

Ron made a "NanoBee"....It fits within the circumference of a "penny"....it's needle valve is bigger than the engine.

Cox, himself..his corp., didn't make diesel engines....Ron's specialty is diesels.

FWIW

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09-04-2015 05:30 AM  3 years agoPost 28
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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With regards to the OP...

I believe that CNC machining mechanisms were the first "robots".

When the CNC "setup and programming" is refined, parts can be precisely made...again and again....it's the "assembly line" on steroids.

Only children make such statements...as the OP said...and these children have never drilled a straight hole.

It's "tough" to learn the skills to be a master machinist...without them...well...we'd be in a heap of crap.

It's teamwork that makes us great.

FWIW

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09-04-2015 07:08 AM  3 years agoPost 29
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Sorry but there's no such classification as "Master Machinist". I invite you to check with the Department of Labor on that, to my knowledge there is no such classification. You either are a Machinist, or you aren't. I served a four year apprenticeship at a DOD Facility from 1978 until 1981 and graduated a year early due to prior experience. The Classification I received from the Department of Defense was of "Machinist". The trade required over 2000 hours per year of on the job training in a variety of manufacturing environments within several disciplines with a requisite amount of classroom work and with overtime I logged by the end of 1982 over 10,000 hours of on the job training plus classroom. The metalworking classifications that the Department of Defense recognizes are Machinist, Gear Cutter and Toolmaker. There is no classification of "Master Machinist" by the USG and there is no classification in civilian industry of "Master Machinist" (please see: http://www.bls.gov/soc/2010/soc_alph.htm#M).

In the DOD world the title of Mechanic or Journeyman was preferred over the title of; Machinist. Most Machinist's that I worked with preferred the term Journeyman. The term Master Machinist possibly dates back to when there were Masters and apprentices. The apprentice was indentured to the Master for a period of time to learn the trade as well as paying the Master back for room and board and the careful tutelage over the years that the apprentice attained. After a suitable period of experience and achievement the Apprentice was awarded the title of Master in his own right. The term "Master" was never applied to the metalworking trades either in Europe or in the US. In the hierarchy of supervision at the Naval Shipyard level there are Shop Super Masters and Quarter Masters, essentially shop heads and general foreman in a civilian environment.

No one masters this trade, we all learn something on every job we do. It's the nature of the business. Custom metalworking is a complex endeavor and there are many facets of the trade that the typical Machinist just will not face in their career. There are subsets of the trade like Screw Machinist, Diemaker, Mold maker, Jig and Fixture builder, Machine builder and scraper, EDM Machinist, Gear cutter, Tool Grinder and CNC Programmers of all stripes. These classifications are all rooted in the base classification of "Machinist". There are no Yoda's.

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09-04-2015 07:31 AM  3 years agoPost 30
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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I was trying to be polite.

What the heck is wrong with you?

Give it a rest.

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09-04-2015 07:41 AM  3 years agoPost 31
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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In the DOD world the title of Mechanic or Journeyman
Only you care....

Sounds like you're jealous of those that don't stand up to you arbitrary qualifications.

If you trash Ron....I will defend him.

And I will do so face to face with you, TM.

Please don't insult my good friends again.

FWIW

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09-04-2015 08:41 AM  3 years agoPost 32
G.Stone

rrApprentice

Thompson, Pa. USA

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......Derailing a thread to start a fight....Again.
Posting to himself......
Can this E-idiot be banned already.

Or to to put it the same way "E" does....."STFU".
And he never seems to get any discipline......so

If you don't have anything to say that is meant to help........."STFU"

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09-04-2015 09:04 AM  3 years agoPost 33
PaulBowen

rrKey Veteran

Victoria, Australia.

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Well said G.Stone

Overall potentially interesting conversation.

TMoore, very informative.

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09-04-2015 11:38 AM  3 years agoPost 34
altima1779

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Toledo, oh u.s

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I work at an automotive supplier in engineering. I work with our die shop daily. Its awesome that I can design something in SolidWorks, save as a iges and para x.t. send it to the die shop along with a drawing, come in the next day and my design is reality. My hats off to those that can make that happen.

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09-04-2015 02:32 PM  3 years agoPost 35
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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I work at an automotive supplier in engineering. I work with our die shop daily. Its awesome that I can design something in SolidWorks, save as a iges and para x.t. send it to the die shop along with a drawing, come in the next day and my design is reality. My hats off to those that can make that happen.
Today it's called MakerBot . . .

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09-04-2015 04:34 PM  3 years agoPost 36
jhartsock3

rrApprentice

Greenwood, IN

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I've been setting up and programming cnc machines in production enviroments for about 15 yrs. I have also done the quality and inspection side. The term CNC just makes people think that cause a machine does the work that its always gonna be precise. But what they don't know is a majority of "cnc" quality is directly related to material and GDT (geometric dimension and tolerance). If you don't pay for tightly controlled tolerance and don't design things based around tight tolerances. Then your parts quality will suffer. I'm not talking about over engineering a part but I'm talking about things like taking plating into the equation and how it will affect holes and threads. Also things like screws that class of fit that provides atleast 75 percent engagement. Those are the things that define a good quality product and are the diffrence between China, U.S., Germany manufacturing. Just about any CNC now a days is capable of producing crap and quality. Its how standards are applied and tolerances are held. Thats where it shows and why poor quality heli kits will produce good and bad kits. And good quality kits will give same high quality from kit to kit.

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09-04-2015 04:45 PM  3 years agoPost 37
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Like I said earlier . . . the parts are only as good as the person setting it up.

I just love it when people say "it's the computer's fault" . . .

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09-04-2015 10:01 PM  3 years agoPost 38
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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well said.
Most guys out of school with CNC under their belt but no manual experience have to learn the hard way. I was lucky enough to have my first job as an apprentice under a machinist with 20 years under his belt. I was a technician tasked with PLC programming and electronics design (later I picked up computer programming like Java, VB, C++ and various scripting languages). my advantage came later after I applied my computer programming knowledge to CNC to make the cycle times shorter and code easy to modify by incorporating loops, preset variables, canned cycles, and decision blocks.
granted my mill is small and has significant backlash and flex (which I have to compensate for), All CNC has enabled me to do is make duplicate parts faster...I can make parts without changing setups and needing a rotatory table, but its still up to me to make sure that I setup everything just right in order to get the parts within the tolerances I want and within the limits of the machine. after all CNC machines are blind and dont have the feel to know when something is wrong or about to go wrong. I have seen them snap a mill cutter and knock the part loose in the fixture and keep going, only to stop after either the operator sees it happen or the controller detects an overload.

that being said, stamped parts, molded parts and even hand machined parts will always have their place no matter how "gee whiz" the CNCs get. When it comes to helis though, some of these high end machining centers have a long way to go to pay themselves off.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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09-04-2015 10:15 PM  3 years agoPost 39
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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All CNC has enabled me to do is make duplicate parts faster...I can make parts without changing setups and needing a rotatory table, but its still up to me to make sure that I setup everything just right in order to get the parts within the tolerances I want and within the limits of the machine. after all CNC machines are blind and dont have the feel to know when something is wrong or about to go wrong. I have seen them snap a mill cutter and knock the part loose in the fixture and keep going, only to stop after either the operator sees it happen or the controller detects an overload.
I'm not sure how you program and run parts but I can see a lot of parts that I've done that can't be done manually very easily because of the complex 3D surfaces that are required. Molds, formed punches, cores and cavities that can't even be started on a manual mill are within reach of a properly programmed and capable CNC machine.

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09-04-2015 10:49 PM  3 years agoPost 40
raholek

rrVeteran

Zachary, Louisiana

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Apprenticeship
I graduated in 2003. Started late in life. Have no idea where my card is....but wish I had kept better track or it. I haven't run a lathe in a year or so, but used to build small parts when I couldn't find them or didn't want to wait.

I know some Great Machinist. The good ones are humble and won't call themselves or anyone a Master.

Guys that stack chips daily are a dying breed. Long live 'Made in the USA!'.

www.redstickrc.net ama#: 968515

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Lets make this "Its CNCed" clear
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