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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsV-Bar › Silverline Vibration Problem
06-28-2015 10:45 PM  3 years agoPost 1
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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Hey there guys, Im running a 105HZ in my Synergy N7. Brand new motor and the other day I was flying and noticed the elevator servo was acting strange. I landed and put it away. Check the logs and there were hits of extreme vibration. Today when I flew it I went to the vibration screen on V-control and sure enough its in the 2000's at times. New main shaft, spindle, tail shaft, tail hub. The helicopter looks and sounds smooth in the air. The sensor is mounted above the starter shaft with a standard grey pad. Should I have to use anything thicker? Never had a problem with nitro and Silverline like this. Any ideas?

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06-29-2015 03:56 AM  3 years agoPost 2
BobOD

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New York- USA

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What frequency is it at?

Team POP Secret

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06-29-2015 12:48 PM  3 years agoPost 3
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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ah shoot! I didn't even realize you could tell that. Is that information in the logs as well?

Team Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!

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06-29-2015 11:50 PM  3 years agoPost 4
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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Alright, so another flight tonight to look for specific freq spikes, nothing. It seems to be hitting the extremes when the engine unloads at the top or bottom of a fast pitch movement. No one frequency stands out they all jump towards or above above the thresh-hold line. Using a Hatori grommet mounted pipe

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06-30-2015 01:06 AM  3 years agoPost 5
don s

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Chesapeake, VA

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Clutch and starter shaft bearings in good shape?

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

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06-30-2015 01:30 AM  3 years agoPost 6
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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The clutch, bearing and liner are new, the bearings in the block I have not checked. I will pull that assembly next I suppose.
Spins smoothly by hand, no play

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07-01-2015 03:58 AM  3 years agoPost 7
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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@dyecocker1, the log message "extreme vibration" is normal, and is simply a result from inevitable blade pitch deflection needed to beat the air into submission for large cyclic/collective combination input (both 3D and sport flying). There is already discussion about this on the Vstabi forums and elsewhere here on RunRyder.

Question: Is there any flight performance issues as a result of an actual vibration issue? If so, since the silverline is very resilient to vibration, then either you have an extremely bad vibe that will endanger other parts of the air frame, or maybe a faulty sensor (doubtful).

Question: Is your silverline new to you?

You could balance your fan, clutch & bell, and tail rotor parts with meticulous care, but a lot of patience is needed, especially balancing a wheel. See videos on youtube for how-to instruction for balancing a propeller on all four sides, as well as a wheel.

_Sam B_

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07-01-2015 12:55 PM  3 years agoPost 8
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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Maybe to some the extreme vibration is normal, but not on my air frames. I could see this possibly happening under a loaded hard maneuver but not when it unloads.

There is flight performance issues, when the helicopter unloads the cyclic drifts like crazy.

This silverline has been installed in this helicopter for quite some time running well on another un-pumped 105.

I dial indicated the fan hub/ clutch. Usually this is plenty close and there is no issues. Im aware of how to balance these assemblies but this normally is not needed.

I guess ill tear down when I get time and look for something out of the normal

Team Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!

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07-02-2015 04:00 AM  3 years agoPost 9
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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Alright thanks. Please don't let your intelligence be offended; that's no my intention. So I'll volunteer my last thoughts:

1) Borrow a friend's Vbar sensor as a process of elimination. Even if it is not a silverline sensor, it's fine to try. (the brain of the silverline is identical to the "black-line" brain).

2) Relocate the sensor somewhere else on the air frame to see if it makes any difference.

3) Consult the Vstabi forum where Rainier and/or Ulrich will give their input.

4) Try another set of main blades and another set of tail blades.

5) Remove the boom and ensure the torque tube bearings are still spaced apart appropriately (offset by a certain amount).

6) Satisfy your curiosity by removing the main blades, but keep the tail blades installed. Then start the engine. While carefully holding the air frame (or fixing it to an apparatus), feel the air frame for excessive vibrations with your hands at various RPM. At the same time you can connect the Vbar software and use the vibration analysis graph for a live representation of what is going on.

I've used this method #6 to perfect my tail rotor and tail blades' balance. If you have the bluetooth module, you can also use your computer or Android phone to see the same vibration analysis graph while it is spooled up with the main blades installed. The bluetooth range is not very far, so exercise caution.

If the issue is so bad, definitely try these 6 methods if you haven't already. I sincerely wish you the best in this journey. Take care.

_Sam B_

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07-02-2015 04:05 AM  3 years agoPost 10
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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Ill make my way down the list this weekend. Iv got a couple other sensors I can try. Thanks for the input

Team Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!

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07-02-2015 03:31 PM  3 years agoPost 11
don s

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Chesapeake, VA

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Any idea what engine RPM you're hitting when you unload the head? Sounds like it may be revving too high?

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

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07-02-2015 09:58 PM  3 years agoPost 12
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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I am running 1950 Hs right now. So I cant imagine its overspeeding the engine as I planned to continue to raise it from there

Team Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!

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07-04-2015 04:58 PM  3 years agoPost 13
Chuckie

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Crofton Maryland

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I had a similar but probably much worse of a problem recently with a new YS motor in my N7. I dialed just the clutch when fist installing the hub and clutch and that wasn't good enough. Ended up cutting the end of the crank off so I could dial the hub on the inside edge and was only able to get down to 0.0015. Rotating the hub 45 deg, tightening and then measuring. The crank had a bit of runout on its own. Used the inside edge of the clutch, where the bearing housing is on the top, not ideal but no other choice, and was able to get 0.001 runout. Silverline was much happier, fuel movement is much less as well.

Don't add more tape under they sensor it will only make things worse.

Charles

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07-13-2015 02:30 AM  3 years agoPost 14
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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Well, after another few flights of testing after assembly I think it might be gone.... I replaced the bearings on the clutch stack. Also turned down the head gain a bit. Still no fuel foaming, still no tail fin vibrations. Weird problem, I don't know if the bearings were the problem or not. Ill do more tuning flights and see what happens.

Team Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!

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07-13-2015 01:12 PM  3 years agoPost 15
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Sometimes it is just a frequency that the vibe resonates at that causes the issue. That can be dependent on the location of the sensor and how it is mounted as well. Good to know you got it….Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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07-13-2015 05:32 PM  3 years agoPost 16
BobOD

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New York- USA

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I am running 1950 Hs right now. So I cant imagine its overspeeding the engine as I planned to continue to raise it from there
Overspeeding doesn't necessarily mean excessive speeding. It could be that during the unload, it is going up in RPM, even a little bit, and hitting a resonant point of something.
It's a shame the vibe analysis isn't telling you more. You might consider inquiring on the vstabi forum as they may be able to tell you more about what the information means.

Team POP Secret

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07-14-2015 01:19 AM  3 years agoPost 17
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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I will see how it flies the next couple outings and go from there. Thanks guys

Team Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!

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08-05-2015 09:52 PM  3 years agoPost 18
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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So how's it working?

_Sam B_

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08-06-2015 01:49 AM  3 years agoPost 19
Dan Minick

rrKey Veteran

Columbus, WI

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It's flying much better, at IRCHA watching all the other N7 owners with smoother heli's. I'm going to try a new torque tube next it will get it back to the way it was sooner or later!

Team Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!

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08-06-2015 03:18 AM  3 years agoPost 20
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Where are you? I am at the Mikado tent..

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsV-Bar › Silverline Vibration Problem
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