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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › What te Confederate flag mean to many
06-23-2015 11:27 PM  3 years agoPost 21
Aaron29

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USA

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Except the reason he only freed them in the Confederacy is he had no right to do it in the Union. NOT BECAUSE HE CHOSE NOT TO.

Remember, the Presidential powers are limited. Remember, there's no such thing as President calling the law!

If tomorrow, Obama says all guns are illegal, it'd be unconstitutional. For the same reason, a President can't free the slaves by decree. In truth, the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free the slaves. The 13th Amendment did. Had it not passed, the slaves would have still been slaves after the war ended. Because the Proclamation would not be held as law after cessation of hostilities.

Lincoln sidestepped the Constitution by basically using the fact that the states were in rebellion. He used his power as commander in chief to decree such a thing in the rebel states. But as soon as the war was over, it required the 13th Amendment to be law.

Don't fool yourself as to what Abe's intentions were. He was an abolitionist. He did what was in his power. Rewriting history to make him ambivalent to the slave is unfair to his legacy.

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06-23-2015 11:32 PM  3 years agoPost 22
es1co2bar3

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winnetka california

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G stone i don't know you're denying that the Republican never free the slave or what.
I read many articles that'd clearly stated it was the ddecision over the slave
that gave birth to the Civil war.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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06-23-2015 11:33 PM  3 years agoPost 23
G.Stone

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Thompson, Pa. USA

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I defend NOTHING, but the truth.

I have NO problem with our heritage.

This is the finest Nation on the planet.

Please explain twisting this into a Black-vs-White thing.

Slaves come in ALL shades.
It was a war that started at the behest of rich elite southerners.
(Politicians) careful, we're getting close to the truth

Most slave owners were poor farmers.

Oh, Heck, forget it. You race baiters worried about something "We the People" corrected over 125 years ago.

I know it's all my fault....I'm sorry.

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06-23-2015 11:37 PM  3 years agoPost 24
Aaron29

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USA

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Yup. Them southern elite plantation owners had the poor white farmers fight and die a pointless and unconstitutional war.

By the way, the addition of the phrase "against all enemies, foreign and domestic" was added to the swearing in to address the southern rebels. Funny how that phrase was added by big government folks and is now usually used against them...Heh bet they wish they never did that.

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06-24-2015 12:03 AM  3 years agoPost 25
G.Stone

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Thompson, Pa. USA

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But don't call it anything other than a rebellion and war of independence.
See, we do agree.

EDIT: ok now you edit your post after I reply(?), is that what we're doing now?

Never mind. Have a nice day.

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06-24-2015 12:15 AM  3 years agoPost 26
Aaron29

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LOL. Didn't know you were here. I'll retype in quotes essentially what was edited. I'd stated that basically the Constitution doesn't address secession because it's unconstitutional.

But I was reconsidering this position:

sic "People claim "states rights" but the constitution allows the states to be compelled because only 2/3 majority vote is required to Amend it. This means 1/3 can be compelled"

I'd deleted it because I needed to do more homework on the purpose of "ratification." The original constitution was ratified by ALL the states. So they then were subject to it. An Amendment has to be ratified by 3/4 of the states. But what of the 1/4 that don't ratify? Ratification is basically the acceptance of the constitution as law. Can a state simply not ratify as a means of secession?

I presume the answer is when the state was originally added to the union, it had to ratify the constitution including that 3/4 ratification component. In that case, they acknowledged the 3/4 ratification as sufficient for law, and their lack of ratification in the present would not hold them outside of the the requirement them to follow the passed Amendment. So, yeah, maybe there's no way out short of rebellion.

That's pretty gansta. Once you in, you in. Blood out. LOL.

But then on the other hand, what could POSSIBLY be the purpose of ratification after a vote has already passed, if not to provide a means of acknowledging or not acknowledging a law?

Any lawyers out there?

Edit: I think I found the answer. The original Articles of Confederation required unanimous ratification. But it was found to be so limiting that they rewrote the Constitution which gave more power to the Fed but still limited the scope of federal power. The Constitution only required 3/4 to ratify and would then be law in those states that ratified. But ALL the original 13 states ratified, and I'm certain every state added has ratified the constitution upon being added. Hence they have all agreed that 3/4 ratification is sufficient to rewrite law. That means that 1/4 states can fail to ratify and still be subject to federal law. So there it is.

Secession is unconstitutional.

You want out, you blood out, Gansta!

But it raises another eyebrow. What if a congress holds a vote and 37 states vote yes, but the 13 states that voted no also don't ratify it? In that case, they passed the law with a 74% majority, but failed to get ratification by 3/4 states. Does the amendment fail? If that's the case, the 2nd Amendment is VERY safe. Thank God.

But if that were the case, could not the South have just refused to ratify the 13th as a means of continuing slavery? By the worst measuring stick, there were 36 states total in the Civil War era, with 11 in the South. (Worst measure, I know more joined the Confederacy). So while they could never stop a 2/3 majority vote, they always maintained enough states to stop an Amendment through ratification refusal!

The plot thickens. If the South could stop abolition Constitutionally, who called the shots to start a war?

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06-24-2015 03:06 AM  3 years agoPost 27
G.Stone

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Thompson, Pa. USA

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+1 Bingo

Btw. Hats off to you, Sir. Nice research.

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06-24-2015 03:52 AM  3 years agoPost 28
es1co2bar3

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winnetka california

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So.... tell me when was the last time you, or any of your family was ever enslaved.
Let me say this and I don't mean any offense but it is what it is and and people must come to term with it. For one reason why Racism can't end is because people want to deny it doesn't exit.

Now hear this there was slave trade in Jamaica all Jamican
Are decedent of slave.

you and your I'm midi ate ] family may never had anything to
Do with slavery, But you're the decedent of slave driver.
Plus, you do realize it was YOUR people that sold their brothers into slavery right???
Black responsible for a lot of $ hit that why they're serving on their knee today, instead of picking up
The piece and move on, their strategy is to blame the white man.

If they're voting like they should be doing no state will be able to fly the Confederate flags.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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06-24-2015 04:05 AM  3 years agoPost 29
Aaron29

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So long as at the end of this, only the Star Spangled Banner and state flags can be flown, I don't care.

But if they squash this flag and a kid can't wear a US flag on Cinco de Mayo, I'm gonna flip.

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06-24-2015 05:17 AM  3 years agoPost 30
es1co2bar3

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winnetka california

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But if they squash this flag and a kid can't wear a US flag on Cinco de Mayo, I'm gonna flip.
This day will never come, the notion that surrounded the whole cinco de mio celebration is more tollorant than any, it is a traditional cultural remembrance.

confederacy is not what certain folks what to be reminded of, I know
There folks in this country that hate federalism and want to go back
Owning people and shackles them up like animal

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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06-24-2015 05:38 AM  3 years agoPost 31
Aaron29

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USA

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This day will never come
The fek it won't:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immi.../flagshirts.asp
folks in this country that hate federalism and want to go back
Owning people and shackles them up like animal
As if federalism has no capacity to enslave.

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06-24-2015 11:24 AM  3 years agoPost 32
G.Stone

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Thompson, Pa. USA

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Esco, stop with your race baiting. You don't "Own" slavery. It's NOT a "Black" thing. There were MANY white slaves, MORE than Black slaves. Why do you deny history?
Check why Lincoln spent so much time in NY City. He was dealing with the massive problem of the Irish slave trade into NY. That's where all the troops came from, he promised "freedom". Well, the Irish got freedom (and the right to vote) and the Black slaves got..........lied to.

Maybe a Great reason to be mad.....at Lincoln. He wasn't the hero you make him out to be......

He's also the father of what is now known as the "IRS".....federal taxes. This was the entire purpose of the Civil War. To stop the federal government take-over. The reason was TAXES not "free the slaves".
The North was just as full of slaves as the South. And "We" fought our asses off and won "Our" freedom......"you" don't own freedom.

And that flag has never hurt anyone except a race baiter.

Oh, wait a minute, MY (white) fore-fathers were slave owners....cuz Esco says so...NO Esco, maybe MY folks were slaves.

And maybe YOUR fore-fathers owned the slaves....BLACK slave owners....Read that again....BLACK slave owners...Black slave owners.

That's who we were fighting. All slave owners.

The Federal government also did this for you, Enjoy.

Watch at YouTube

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06-24-2015 03:49 PM  3 years agoPost 33
Aaron29

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USA

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G.Stone

Which is why calls for dissolving the IRS are impossible. You think that apparatus would go down without a fight?

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06-24-2015 05:29 PM  3 years agoPost 34
es1co2bar3

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winnetka california

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As if federalism has no capacity to enslave.
Yes they do but economically,
During the late 1800 the slave trade was 30 billion $
4 million people work without pay.under confederate rule.
Esco, stop with your race baiting. You don't "Own" slavery. It's NOT a "Black" thing. There were MANY white slaves, MORE than Black 
Prove it that I am I man is just saying a thing or 2 no prejudice man.
ar. To stop the federal government take-over. The reason was TAXES not "free the slaves". 
The North was just as full of slaves as the South. And "We" fought our asses off and won "Our" freedom......"you" don't own freedom.
The Federal slave weren't treated like slave they have access to resources almost like normal folks
The federation government will not even let the man eat with
Spoon read a book, black in the south was illiterate and deprived of comonsense knowledge.

Please don't let anyone catch you defending Con Federaccy

I understand Lincoln was more about the Union than the slave
that remain a stumbling block be he wanted everyman on the same page and they couldn't be unionize if people wasn't going to work together.

it was Lincol

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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06-24-2015 05:37 PM  3 years agoPost 35
G.Stone

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Thompson, Pa. USA

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Please allow me to quote you.
Spoon read a book, black in the south was illiterate and deprived of comonsense knowledge.
Please take every opportunity to correct this situation.

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06-24-2015 05:42 PM  3 years agoPost 36
Aaron29

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USA

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For starters, can we at least put the H in "the" in the thread title?!

Te is a Spanish word. Te llama Ingles?

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06-24-2015 05:56 PM  3 years agoPost 37
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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braham Lincoln freed the slaves, right? Well, the truth is a bit more complicated than that; actually, the truth is very complicated
Actually, the truth is quite simple. The civil war was fought to free slaves. Period.

The confederate states seceded from the union because the north fully intended to free the slaves. Once the slaves were free, then they no longer had any value. The value of slaves (their monetary worth) was critical for the south since that was the highest value property the big slave owners had at the time. To have that value stripped from the big slave owners was the primary reason why the southern states seceded from the union. It would have left many of them in total bankruptcy and flat broke with zero return on their investment.

The truth is simple. Well in excess of 600,000 Americans died in the civil war to end slavery and many, many more thousands of them were injured. Immediately following the surrender of the confederate states, all slaves became free people.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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06-24-2015 06:06 PM  3 years agoPost 38
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Yes they do but economically,
During the late 1800 the slave trade was 30 billion $
4 million people work without pay.under confederate rule.
Late 1800's ?????

The civil war ended in 1865 and the slaves were freed immediately.

I really get a laugh at the loony left as they try very hard to change history and when they do they just step on their own d#cks.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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06-24-2015 06:17 PM  3 years agoPost 39
Aaron29

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USA

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Like how whitey both died to end slavery and wants to restart it?

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06-24-2015 06:28 PM  3 years agoPost 40
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Like how whitey both died to end slavery and wants to restart it?

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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