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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Tail kicking out on collective pump with GT5 FBL Controller
06-06-2015 10:20 AM  4 years ago
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sludge.sa

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Centurion, Gauteng, South Africa

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Tail kicking out on collective pump with GT5 FBL Controller
I have installed an ACE RC GT5.1 FBL Controller in my mini Titan Super Cobra Gunship conversion kit. It fly well on the stock mini Titan e325s FBL. Now that I have installed the kit including a hi tail extension the tail will not hold on hard collectivize for a climb out as well as collective dump. I have followed Gary Wright's supplementary guide to a T several times and can not get this sorted. I have applied full DMA both directions to no avail. What am I missing?
Keep the blades out the dirt
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06-07-2015 04:49 AM  4 years ago
Heli Fanatix

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Fountain Valley, CA

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When the tail kick out, does it stay kicked out or does it come back?

I would suggest making sure:
- mechanical setup is silkly smooth
- double check all the tail mechanism move freely
- sometimes loctite locks it up
- I use closest hole to center of servo horn while still give full travel
- 90 the horn
- mechanically adjust your rudder control rod so the pitch slider is in the middle of the tail pitch slider travel
- if u r able to perform a right aileron roll with full collective
- that will stress the tail and test the holding power
- adjust tail gain according
- than you can adjust the I, P and D on your FBL respectively

Hope this helps
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06-07-2015 07:35 AM  4 years ago
sludge.sa

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Hi helifanatix,

I to answer you question, yes it does come back but slowly. If I hit the collective hard it turns almost 90 and i have to catch it myself.

I did go through mechanical setups again last night and will give it another go at fist light this morning. I have dropped Gary Wright a PM in the hope he can find some time to assist me.
Keep the blades out the dirt
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06-07-2015 08:04 AM  4 years ago
Heli Fanatix

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Fountain Valley, CA

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This is what I would do:
- set your tail basic tail gain to point of oscillation and back off 7 points
( this is your typical 55 - 80 tail gain)
- increase your P gain until a fast wag / back off a bit to get rid of any oscillation
- increase your I Gain to achieve the heading hold power ( this reducing the steady state error but may achieve over shoot )
- than if your FBL allow you to set D Gain ...will smooth out the feel of tail. Improves the speed of P and I
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06-07-2015 02:12 PM  4 years ago
Andy from Sandy

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to answer you question, yes it does come back but slowly. If I hit the collective hard it turns almost 90 and i have to catch it myself.
Which way does the model turn?

Does your FBL controller have collective to tail pre-compensation.

This applies a certain amount of rudder regardless of any gains. It just gives the tail a head start.

You can see it working on the bench when you give collective you see rudder going in. Also make sure if it does have pre-comp you have it working the correct way. I hope I am correct that it should apply right rudder.

Other things can affect this like not enough headspeed which equals not enough tail authority.

The system as a whole cannot maintain headspeed when you apply full collective.

Tail blades too small. Full tail throw not available.
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06-08-2015 01:52 PM  4 years ago
sludge.sa

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I do have Precomp settings avalable. The tail is swinging to the right so thinkiong about it, it is over compensating.Keep the blades out the dirt
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06-08-2015 03:00 PM  4 years ago
Andy from Sandy

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I suspect swinging to right, nose left means you need more pre-comp, i.e. more right rudder
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06-08-2015 04:49 PM  4 years ago
sludge.sa

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Hi Andy,

The head rotates clockwise so the heli is going counter clockwise thus we need left rudder by my understanding or do I have it all upside down?
Keep the blades out the dirt
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06-10-2015 08:28 AM  4 years ago
sludge.sa

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Last night I did a Rough-In of the tail setup by hovering, checking that the servo is at 90, landing and adjusting till I got it very close. Now the torque hold is much better. This process is the mechanical process of doing the Tail Asymmetry in the controller itself. It is holding a lot better now. I will now go back to the D-sence and Torque settings.Keep the blades out the dirt
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06-10-2015 11:10 AM  4 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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This is torque yaw. There are several ways to adjust your setup to reduce or get rid of it. Assuming of course that full tail pitch has been programmed.

1. More right rudder tail pitch (increase the gyro gain).

2. More tail power (increase head speed).

3. Use tail pre comp in the FBL unit.

4. Reduce governor head room either by dropping a pinion size and keeping the same HS or increase the headspeed (Castle ESC's for example want you to have way too much head room).

5. If using curves in your TX, make them less steep, i.e. Use 90-85-80-85-90 instead of 100-80-60-80-100 for example.
60% of the time, it works every time!
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06-10-2015 01:03 PM  4 years ago
Andy from Sandy

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Bedfordshire, UK

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If the model rotates CCW you need more right rudder to effectively turn the
model CW or in your case hold it still.

A quick test:
First get the tail blades pointing up and down and then rotate the bottom blade up toward you.
Now input right rudder and you will see the tip move to the right just like on a ships rudder.
This then pushes the tail to the left countering the torque of the motor / head.
Giving collective input should see the rudder do the same if you have pre-comp setup.
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06-10-2015 07:33 PM  4 years ago
sludge.sa

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Thanks for all the advice. I've come down with the flue so will only get to it in a few days. Will post feedback around Saturday.Keep the blades out the dirt
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06-11-2015 03:09 PM  4 years ago
sludge.sa

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OK, after getting a "happy" jab from the GP I brain is working in overdrive. I took the heli out and adjusted the P and I setting so not tail wag. The torque compensation is now holding the tail nicely after I upped head speed.

Now I need to sort out the stop as the tail rebounds once on fast stop of a pirouette. All in all, the advice from every one has resulted in a heli I can fly. I will fly off a few batteries before I reinstall the scale fuselage again.

Thanks everyone.
Keep the blades out the dirt
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06-11-2015 05:04 PM  4 years ago
Heli Fanatix

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Fountain Valley, CA

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When a tail blow out, Heli is Pirouetting CCW. If its Heli is Pirouetting CW than it is overshooting.

As I have mentioned early on ... Always adjust:
- Main gain
- P
- I
- D (if available)
- tail comp is same as revo mix, something I found out I never had to use if I correctly set the previous four respectively.

* as far as mechanically, I always 90 the servo arm and make sure tail pitch slider is in the middle of its travel by adjusting the rudder control rod.

Flying sideways will test the tail. If you want to test your tail's holding power, try a right aileron roll with full collective (I run +\- 12).
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06-11-2015 10:35 PM  4 years ago
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

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long beach calif

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Now I need to sort out the stop as the tail rebounds
under pid you should have tail stop gains
Insha Allah made in america
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