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HomeAircraftHelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Stratus Tail Drift
05-27-2015 01:37 AM  3 years agoPost 1
MattJen

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UK

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Hi All

I have just test flown my stratus and I am getting tail drift.

Everything is fine in regards to setup, push rod length etc,
it is the 601 gyro..

All I can presume it is due to the frame being so narrow and engine running in ( rich) is vibration is causing the Gyro to tail drift.

I just wondered how you guys have mounted your gyros ? I have made a little carbon plate and placed 1 piece of foam, then the metal plate followed by another piece of foam ( genuine futaba) I noticed I only had to tap the frame and the tail servo jittered.. so I am pretty certain it is vibes as the fuel tank with fuel in during the hover looked like a washing machine with loads of foam..

SO I just wondered if anyone has any pics of how they have mounted the gyro..

Many thanks

matt

All The Best

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05-27-2015 02:04 AM  3 years agoPost 2
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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I don't own a Stratus but I do own a Spectra Gasser and a Min Air 1005 gasser stacked frame. Gassers as you know put out lots of vibs . When ever I had drifting issues [usually breaking in a new engine] I have found that too springy, soft or tall a mounting of the gyro can lead to problems with drift. I have found the firmer the mounting tape the better. This has been the case with the old 401 520 futaba gyros and the Bavarian Demon I use in my Spectra. Maybe try the 3M double sided tape. Many and I myself use this with success. I use one layer. I remember having drift problems with the futaba foam tape on my 1005 and changed it out and it was better.

As far as the foamy fuel tank did you balance the fan and dial indicate it when you installed the fan to the engine? You really should get that under control first. Is the engine new?

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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05-28-2015 12:37 AM  3 years agoPost 3
MattJen

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UK

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Thanks Turbo for some ideas.

In regards to your specific questions,

As far as the foamy fuel tank did you balance the fan and dial indicate it when you installed the fan to the engine? You really should get that under control first. Is the engine new?

I did balance the fan but I did not dial indicate it as it went on what seemed square, but I could check it..
The engine has just had new bearings and a service as it had sat around unused for nearly 3 yrs, so as you can imagine the bearing were rusty, Also found a couple of O rings around the needles had perished. So as it has been rebuilt it is running very rich as it has had only 3 tanks through it. SO I know this will cause a vibe..

As to gyro mount, I will change it out, and try something else.. it is very spongy I have to say and even today flicking the gyro sensor lead causes the tail to move and servo to twitch..

EDIT
You mention the 3M tape, what specific one do you use as there are many on their web site including the double sided one,

Thanks for the advice, will try and report back

Matt

All The Best

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05-28-2015 01:28 AM  3 years agoPost 4
dgoss999

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UK - Lancashire

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I did balance the fan but I did not dial indicate it as it went on what seemed square, but I could check it..
The fan on the Stratus grips the crank with two taper collets, one from the top and one from the bottom of the fan./

It's going to be hard for it not to be concentric and a bitch to fix if it is...

DG

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05-28-2015 02:59 AM  3 years agoPost 5
geomecc

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Long Island ,NY

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it's not hard. grease the collets and tighten slowly as you check the run out. if it won't center loosen the fan turn it on the crank and try again.

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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05-28-2015 03:29 AM  3 years agoPost 6
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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Interesting setup . My Min Air gassers are different and I have never had a setup like that in any heli. But by coincidence a friend of mine won at a fun fly a Gaui X700. He is an experienced builder and heli flyer. Engine [a YS] that was new and running abit rich ,maybe 7 flights total on the heli. Normal mode everything was fine ,stunt 1 the heli [fbls] would lean to the right ,,normal mode it was fine. He re mounted the fbls unit to 3M tape which I guess was more hard mounted than the previous tape/foam. He tried it out yesterday and problem gone. Not saying it was the "3M" type tape but compared to the previous stuff I believe it was more securely mounted. It is still running rich because it is breaking in. I will try to find the part # of the tape and post it here. But I think for me the firmer the tape with my gassers the better the results generally . Could be you hit the engine rpm and being rich it is the same frequency as your mounting of the gyro. Could be when you lean it out or figure out the foaming problem it will go away with your present mounting. But you say it is a bit wiggly even when moving the wire and in my opinion that would not be good for my gassers.
I will try to find the part number of the tape. In the USA you can find it in any decent hardware store so it is no an elusive or rare product.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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05-28-2015 05:54 PM  3 years agoPost 7
MattJen

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UK

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Thanks again Turbo,
I will have look Friday evening down at Dgoss999, as he lives nearby 45min drive..

I want to get it sorted as I know these machines fly smooth and nice.

Matt

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05-28-2015 09:38 PM  3 years agoPost 8
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Yes good luck and I am sure you will figure it out. Min Airs are smooth!

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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05-28-2015 09:46 PM  3 years agoPost 9
geomecc

rrKey Veteran

Long Island ,NY

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it's the 3m outdoor mounting tape found at most Home Depot. it's like 0411 or something close to it

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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06-03-2015 12:18 PM  3 years agoPost 10
MattJen

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UK

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Well I met up with good friend dgoss999
And we stripped the stratus down AGAIN
We found vibration issues and a couple of potential causes.
1
One of the drive pins on the clutch had come loose and dropped which meant 1 pin was longer than the other.. it meant it had destroyed and torn the rubber sockets that fit into top of fan.

2
the fan was balanced a little more and we dialled it in to minute run out.

3
Tail grips the bearings were dry and notchy,when we re tightened the nylons on grips the tail blades locked up..this would gave caused issues I'm sure..
The thrust races had no grease and one other bearing was rusty.. we re greased these..

4
tail hub when put on a drill and spun had a slight wobble so I guess it had got knocked.. we straightened it out with a tap and run it up , no wobble.. (new one on order)..

5
A frame supports it seems it had a knock, on closer investigation and had very slightly bent the A frame I replaced these and the engine perfectly aligned without strain as before.

So this week am gonna run it up again and see if it's mmade a difference.

Dies anyone know the sizes for the tail bearings?
Am after grip size and thrust races for tail..

Thanks for info and help

Matt

All The Best

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06-03-2015 05:13 PM  3 years agoPost 11
carcrasher

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east coast

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Glad to see you found the possible causes. Go to Ron Lunds website and have a look at his parts finder. You should be able to get all the info you need there.

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06-03-2015 05:40 PM  3 years agoPost 12
jason46

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MI

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Was the gyro mounted on the "bulkhead" ahead of the starter coupler, or somewhere else?

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06-03-2015 05:44 PM  3 years agoPost 13
MattJen

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UK

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the gyro was mounted as per manual, in front of the start shaft..
This is where it is on all the Xcell I have owned, ( fury,tempest,stratus)

All The Best

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06-03-2015 07:07 PM  3 years agoPost 14
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Wow that is quite a list of things that could possibly cause your problem. I would guess the gyro tape was the least of your problems lol! Keep us posted!!

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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06-03-2015 07:17 PM  3 years agoPost 15
MattJen

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UK

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I checked over the major things like mast bearings, bell cranks, grips and thrust races and tail for no binding, servos and servo gears.

I did not think of dismantling the clutch.. point for future reference.

I will check fly it over the weekend they forecast great weather here over the next few days.

All The Best

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06-04-2015 11:22 PM  3 years agoPost 16
MattJen

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UK

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I had a fly today only half a tank hover as the wind was blowing over 15mph..

I held it side on to the wind and the tail held, with no drifting..

There is still a little foaming in the tank, I noticed the blades are not in track so this could be the reason for it.

I have re checked all screws and all are tight, I have checked all bell cranks for any signs of notchyness they all spin freely..

So I am hoping it is now because the blades were out of track and the engine is running rich due to running it in..

Matt

All The Best

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06-05-2015 12:02 AM  3 years agoPost 17
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Sounds much better already! I bet when you track the blades and lean her out a bit she will be great.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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06-05-2015 12:07 AM  3 years agoPost 18
MattJen

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UK

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thanks turbo, and everyone else, the help in this forum has really been appreciated..

I found an old post from Dr Ben, about dialling in the fan, I am at 2th which is the top end of MA say, so following his method I am hoping to visit my good friend Dgoss999 and see if we can get it dialled in more which has got to help..

Find yourself a 12 inch or so piece of hardwood dowel about 1/2 inch in diameter. Its use will be explained shortly. Remove the back plate and plug from your motor. I also pull the piston and sleeve to yield a completely drag free crank, but I don't force that step on people.

Lightly oil the collects and assemble the fan on the motor. Tighten the nut until the assemble JUST STARTS to draw down. Don't crank down on the nut. Dial the fan. If the fan is out more than 1 thou, gently tap the fan's face with a plastic hammer as Gordie suggested. I actually have a piece of flat aluminum with a thin piece of card glued on to it that I use to protect the fan face from dings. You don't have to tap hard at all to get the fan to dial true. The purpose of the dowel lies here. Have a friend hold the dowel against the crank counterweight and place the other end on a FIRM surface while you tap the fan face. Supporting this way makes certain that only the fan is shifted; the crank and bearings never see any force.

When you've got the fan back to 1 thou or less, tighten the nut a little more. Redial. Retap to retrue/align if needed. Never continue to tighten UNTIL you've gotten the rounout to less than 1 thou. As the nut gets tighter, I generally work harder to get to 1/2 thou or below. You might have to tap more than once. You NEVER have to hit hard AT ALL. The whole reason for tapping as you go is to keep the fan straight on the collets as the assembly tightens down. When the assembly really starts to snug up, make final tap adjustments before completely torqueing the nut. Almost without exception, if I've reduced the fan runout to 3/4 thou or less just before the final torqueing, the runout either holds stable or actually improves to drop to below 1/2 thou. My two Furys have one fan dialed at 1/4 thou and one just a hair (~1/3 thou) more than that.

As drawn out as this is to describe, it only takes about 45 minutes to do. It isn't at all potentially frustrating like the hit or miss techniques of rotating the fan and then rechecking. It's really rather pleasant to do, because you have control over the process each step of the way, and you don't proceed until things are dialing correctly.

Make no mistake. A model with a fan runout below 2 thou will likely show little perceptable vibration and certainly shouldn't crack sideframes. HOWEVER, a model with a fan running with near zero runout has a special, sweet sound, and the bearing and other component life on the drivetrain are exceptional.

Best regards,

Ben Minor

Matt

All The Best

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06-05-2015 02:40 AM  3 years agoPost 19
dgoss999

rrApprentice

UK - Lancashire

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Matt. I dialled the fan to .03mm on the clutch end and .02mm on the fan end all on the 3rd attempt of fitting with one replacement collet. .. How close do you need this to go?

"Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see." • Benjamin Franklin

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06-05-2015 02:55 AM  3 years agoPost 20
MattJen

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UK

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how close do you think it needs to go ???

when they say it can be down to 3/4 surely that can be better, I sent you a link to a video as well...

will chat tomorrow, ooh it is tomorrow...

http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath...atusdialhub.wmv

All The Best

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