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HomeTurbine✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterTurbine Helicopters › Wren 2nd stage turbine removal
05-06-2015 12:26 PM  6 years ago
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steph

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Wren 2nd stage turbine removal
Hi Guys I'm having to strip down my turbine and heli had a little mishap it seem like the 2nd stage turbine has seized up as I have never stripped this system I have to follow the instructions.

Problem is I have removed the nut retaining the 2nd stage but it won't come off the shaft and I don't have a puller to fit any idea's
I have tried to gently tap it from the gearbox side it just don't want to move
I applied wd40

thanks in advance

The world is round you can run but you will always end up where you started from
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05-06-2015 01:10 PM  6 years ago
modtron

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Just sent you a pm

modtron
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05-06-2015 01:11 PM  6 years ago
modtron

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Just sent you a pm

modtron
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05-06-2015 01:17 PM  6 years ago
Jerry K

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I have never performed the operation you are attempting but I do a lot of that type work in full scale. Remember heat is your friend. That turbine wheel runs over 2000 degf. Heat it evenly trying to keep heat off the shaft and it should grow away from the shaft. Try to heat it fast to prevent the heat from traveling.

Your post refers to the nut not coming off then you talk about tapping it from the gear box side. Are you having problems with the nut or the T wheel? Heat will help both of those situations. You should come up with a fixture to retain the engine espically when you begin heating it.
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05-06-2015 01:33 PM  6 years ago
steph

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Thanks guys for your replies

I'll try the heat treatment as you say Jerry
The world is round you can run but you will always end up where you started from
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05-06-2015 02:23 PM  6 years ago
dgoss999

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Steph,

I have a similar gearbox on my 2 x Zealous and have removed the 2nd stage turbine/wheel a few times for various reasons. The 2nd Turbine will run at the exhaust temp of the engine @ around 600c which is about 1100f but the problem you have is the turbine wheel is 'corroded' to the shaft. Pullers won't remove it as there is nothing to pull from.. If you fabricate something there is every chance you will damage the blades on the wheel.

Your best chance of going forward is to remove the nut on the other end of the shaft (the Gear end) and pull the whole assembly out of the turbine bearing tube from the front side. Once you have it a out, you'll need to soak the from end of the turbine shaft by standing in some lubricant (Auto Transmission oil/WD40) for a few days and then supporting the wheel from behind, press the shaft out of the wheel. Do not be tempted to drive the shaft out as you can very easily distort the thread at the Turbine wheel end. Also pulling the shaft assy out of the bearing tube may result in the ceramic bearing falling apart (If the outer race is stuck in any way) so be prepared with a new bearing to reassemble. My guess is you will be replacing the bearing anyway and re-balance else why disassemble the thing in the first place.

Let us know how you get on..

PM me for a Phone No. if you need to talk. I am in the UK.

/DG
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05-06-2015 02:59 PM  6 years ago
steph

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Dgoss999 thanks for your comments yes the ceramic bearing is a must for the rebuild,

I think you are right about removing the gearbox end and soaking the turbine assembly over night I'll try that next
The world is round you can run but you will always end up where you started from
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05-06-2015 04:16 PM  6 years ago
steph

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Finally got it off plenty heat and brute force lots of lube

the fibre washers that were behind it were charcoal and the gear box bearing is shot

Thanks for the help guys got there in the end now the fun bit spending money on the rebuild
The world is round you can run but you will always end up where you started from
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05-06-2015 04:22 PM  6 years ago
dgoss999

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Fibre washer!! Are you sure? It should have been a single spacer about 6mm. The spacer is there to run the back of the Turbine Wheel close to the housing.

I hope you didn't loosen the wheel too much on the shaft!

/DG
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05-06-2015 05:09 PM  6 years ago
steph

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That's nearly everything disassembled the bearing on the shaft is solid but a little heat will probably loosen that

after I removed the 2nd stage turbine there was thick what looked like something had been burnt and destroyed

according to the plans are two fibre washers and a steel washer I assumed that the washers were totally destroyed hence the black remains this could have just been soot backed on

But I did not find any fibre washers on the shaft as the instructions mention
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05-09-2015 01:30 PM  6 years ago
MattJen

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according to the plans

If the plans you are referring to are the Predator MW54 then those instructions were for the Oil fed gear box where you had to put 10ML of oil in,if you failed to top up the oil and it run dry you would get loads of white smoke and a smell of oily fish, you would also kill/melt the oil seals which is what you maybe referring to

Looking at your gear box its hard to tell which one you have, as the later ones changed over to the fuel/mix so it removed the need to have to top up the oil every few hrs and the gear box bearing was upgraded to something more beefier. (mk3 turbine)..

The other thing is the gear boxes came ready assembled, they were not in kit form as you can see from my pics.

I personally would give Mike a call at Wren, as I haven't heard of fibre washers on anywhere except the fuel pipe ring fixings within the combustion chamber.. or you could PM Chris Bergen as he also has tonnes of experience with the MW54

This is the oil filled gear box..

All The Best
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05-09-2015 07:26 PM  6 years ago
steph

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Hi Matt

My gearbox is the oil based version where you need to top up with 15 ml of oil
I have spoken to mike and he has some drawings for me to work from
if this is the old type then its probably going to be difficult to source spares mike says he has some I'm keeping my fingers crossed he has what I need
I also need a mod fan as the one I have is destroyed
Its probably better for me to buy the new type but I was trying to keep the parts spend down as I'm between jobs at this time

The world is round you can run but you will always end up where you started from
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05-10-2015 02:10 PM  6 years ago
steph

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[quote]Fibre washer!! Are you sure? It should have been a single spacer about 6mm. The spacer is there to run the back of the Turbine Wheel close to the housing.

The world is round you can run but you will always end up where you started from
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05-10-2015 07:43 PM  6 years ago
dgoss999

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Ah! Fibre washer in the tunnel/Exhaust joint.. - I thought you meant behind the 2nd stage turbine wheel in the Output Shaft sorry. I think the tunnel washer (Spacer) is replaced with Brass shims now (Or it is on my Gearbox) I can't believe a fibre washer could withstand the temps on that end of the Bearing Tunnel. I think in your case obviously it didn't.

/DG
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05-10-2015 10:37 PM  6 years ago
MattJen

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you learn something every day!!

as my gear box was sent assembled I did not know that,i looked through my manual which is the same Pred/Wren conversion..
and it doesn't mention the fibre washer, hence I said I hadn't heard of them..

My manual in the same photo says fit the spacer washer 143b to the tunnel.. no mention of fibre washers..

so they must of upgraded it, as i noted the date of your turbine is 05, mine was an 08 so 3 yrs younger,i know from then they upgraded a few components across the whole turbine including the gear box..

All The Best
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05-11-2015 12:19 PM  6 years ago
steph

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Interesting it says in your manual to fit the spacer behind the spider and not in front like mine
You have no washer in the front of the spider behind the lock nuts
The world is round you can run but you will always end up where you started from
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05-11-2015 04:06 PM  6 years ago
MattJen

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yeah, strange as I have a MK2 and 3 here..

All I can think is yours must be one of the early MK2 turbines, as said they were doing a lot of upgrades, a friend of mine BellBloke
had a MK2 and when we compared the differences between his and mine it was like chalk and cheese..

It maybe worth speaking to Mike again, as if the later turbines did not need the fibre washer it begs the question as to wht they upgraded that negated the need for it.. it may be they used a thicker washer - (guess)

Matt
All The Best
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05-24-2015 06:51 PM  6 years ago
steph

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I'm still waiting for the plans for the tunnel from wren mike says he has some, in the mean time I attempted to replicate the tunnel not a bad job if I say so myself

Is there is any end float on the second stage turbine shaft on the preload spring if so how much
Also on the gearbox output shaft end float how much if any

What do you think

The world is round you can run but you will always end up where you started from
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05-26-2015 12:56 PM  6 years ago
MattJen

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Neat job Steph.

I had a drawing of the gear box but I cannot find it anywhere grrr, if Mike hasn't sent it yet there are drawings on the GAS Turbine Builders Accosiation website, but it may require some searching in archives.
All The Best
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05-26-2015 05:45 PM  6 years ago
steph

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I have this one but it don't tell me if any end float on the shafts

The world is round you can run but you will always end up where you started from
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HomeTurbine✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterTurbine Helicopters › Wren 2nd stage turbine removal
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