RunRyder RC
WATCH
 11 pages [ <<    <     4      5     ( 6 )     7      8     NEXT    >> ] 27393 views POST REPLY
HomeScale✈️AircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion Docs  Vario Bell 412 electric
01-24-2016 06:47 PM  3 years ago
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Double E.... you're a genius....

I swapped the motor wires and reversed the direction of rotation and lo behold... there is no more slipping....

It has been a STEEP!!!! learning curve but I think I got a hold of things. As said this is my first ever clutch so I was googling the setups and trying to make sense of it... while at the same time.... forgetting that I'm doing a reversed setup...

The motor is set up in such a manner that the whole clutch assembly is set the opposite way as it usually is... Upside down should you wish. And when I was checking the orientation of clutch shoe I failed to realize that I should flip the whole thing.... as well.... anyhou.... did a quick test and it looks like it works as it should...

will be a busy week at work and I will see if I can get any real test done and post some findings. If not sooner than it will be next weekend....

but thanks to all that helped me think this issue through...

gh
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-24-2016 06:55 PM  3 years ago
rcheli808

rrApprentice

Mililani,Hi-USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Glad you found the problem and thanks for helping me understand electric setups.

Tim
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-27-2016 05:14 PM  3 years ago
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

MyPosts All Forum Topic
gents... I had some unexpected time off today so I decided to spin the mechanics... I hook them all up and there is the same old thing that happened...
I was upset (put very mildly...) when I reversed the rotation it worked as it should... the head was spinning as it should and all was in order... BUT the helicopter I want to replicate has a CW rotation of main rotor... so I decided to disassemble everything when it dawned on me...
In order to reverse rotation I have to reverse the one way bearing as well.... and I just swapped the wires and it worked as it should...
So I decided to check and I found it... it was the OWB that is not doing it's job as it should....

I guess since I was spinning it like I did it is tome to replace the whole thing and just be at peace...
but at least I figured it out. It does not matter how I turned the clutch shoe... it works both ways... it was the OWB that I had in there the wrong way....

it took me a while but I am moving forward...

gh

SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-27-2016 05:21 PM  3 years ago
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
LOL, funny, but we've ALL been there from time to time. A piece of solid advice for you. Throw that plastic intermediate gear in the trash can and buy vario's upgraded metal gear. It's expensive, but WELL worth it. The gear that you have was originally in the Vario Kobold model heli and wasn't designed for larger diameter discs and multi blade applications. The stock skyfox gear is better, but still not up to par. This gear is famous for stripping at the worst possible time, usually in mid flight. I lost a scale machine to one and so have a few others in here...
Barry
All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-27-2016 06:24 PM  3 years ago
rcheli808

rrApprentice

Mililani,Hi-USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
gh,
Thanks for sharing that...glad you found the problem.

Tim
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-27-2016 07:01 PM  3 years ago
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Barry

I planned to heed your advice and was on the list of items I needed to complete this build. I guess this just bumped it on the top of the list...

but yes I am glad I found it..

gh
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-27-2016 10:46 PM  3 years ago
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

MyPosts All Forum Topic
💎Sustaining Member
Good News!!
Glad you were finally able to find it!!
Like Barry said, we have all been to the wall, sometimes more then we would like.. but in the end, the fun is worth it..

Stan
AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-27-2016 11:58 PM  3 years ago
Double E

rrApprentice

Atlanta, GA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
GH,

Glad you got it worked out. Lots of people posted great recommendations but I figured the culprit might have been something simple like the direction of rotation.

Now you're the professional with clutches and one way bearings. Good luck with the rest of your build.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-28-2016 11:36 AM  3 years ago
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

MyPosts All Forum Topic
yes it was confusing as most stated that the direction of rotation of the clutch shoe should not matter...
I'm just pis*** off because I did such a basic mistake. I guess with all the fiddling about with the clutch I missed the obvious.

Well... it is a learning experience...
and a fun one as well...

gh
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-28-2016 12:39 PM  3 years ago
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker ,al- home of army aviation

MyPosts All Forum Topic
as most stated that the direction of rotation of the clutch shoe should not matter...
I thought so, I know I have done many things with clutches including reverse rotation without a problem.
glad you figured that out and can get going with progress. will continue to follow
drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-25-2016 08:22 PM  3 years ago
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Well.... the parts got it and I'm procrastinating with the reversing of the OWB... (plus I've been extra busy at work)
got this clip in the mean time to keep me motivated....

Watch at YouTube

GH
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-25-2016 09:38 PM  3 years ago
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
That video was flat out awesome!! Thanks for posting.
Barry
All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-27-2016 04:18 PM  3 years ago
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Well I quit the procrastination phase... and got back to work on this project. First I had to reverse the OWB which was... uneventful but I took my time in order NOT to mess things up....
Once I did that and I put all the pieces back together I did some tests outside the fuselage...

Next I decided to glue the base for the mechanics in the fuselage... I used epoxy glue mixed with microbaloons and so far it looks ok... Will add more reinforcement on the bottom with time but for now this had to suffice... and it did...

Currently the mechanics are "hard mounted" on the FG board... When I spool up the mechanics as it is... at about 50% there is an apparent vibration.. but I'm assuming that it is mostly due to the frequency of the motor... as it COMPLETELY goes away once I hit 80% throttle... It is all good up to 100% from there on... I plan to add "ribs" in the form of added scale details so I'm not too concerned about it at this point...

I ran a few packs to see if there are any structural issues but so far all is fine...
Anyway if you guys notice anything off let me know... so that I can address it.

Watch at YouTube

next is fitting the tail... still trying to make it removable... but we will see what will come out of this...

gh
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-28-2016 12:18 PM  3 years ago
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Started to work on the front reinforcement... decided to follow the design of the real one with the option to run cables through both of them if I would need it...

SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-07-2016 07:16 PM  3 years ago
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

MyPosts All Forum Topic
OK gents... I need another piece of advice...
With my mechanics in place and the tail build in progress I checked the length of Vario TT shaft that was supplied with the kit... and of course it is too short... so I need to get me a new piece for the TT application.

And I have been thinking (yes it hurts...) I know that people use arrow shafts for TT's... but can one use a CF hollow rod? would this work as a TT in this kind of helicopter? It appears firm enough to me but who am I to really know.. so I had to ask the wise ones out here... in fact anyone with an idea is welcome..

gh
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-07-2016 09:08 PM  3 years ago
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Yes, you can use CF tubing for the TQ tube. IMHO, I would lightly abrade the CF where the support bearings will sit and use a small drop of CA (keep it out of the bearing) to bond the bearing inner race to the TQ tube. This way you won't wear a groove in the CF tubing if the bearing spins on the shaft.
The other issue is the grub screws for the claw or dog bone fittings damaging the CF tubing. CF doesn't like stress risers (cracks), so if you choose to go this route I would machine a spud that would bond into the ID of the tube on both ends, to extend out beyond the end of the tube, (for the claw fitting to sit on). This would allow you to tighten the grub screw without cracking the CF tube. But if you do this you may as well have just done this with the stainless tube and been done with it. It simplifies things...
Barry
All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-07-2016 09:29 PM  3 years ago
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Barry

Thank you for the reply. I guess that the general consensus is to go with stainles steel tubig.
I would like to avoid the possibilities for failiure like overtightenong the cf tube and causing the material to fail....

It was worht considering but I guess I'm not that adventurous after all.

Gh
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-07-2016 11:27 PM  3 years ago
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Yeah, this kind of mod isn't for everyone. Extending the stainless TQ tube, or buying a longer length is the easier way to go.
Barry
All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-12-2016 08:42 PM  3 years ago
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Baby steps but at least I'm moving along....
can not find an arrow shaft that is long enough and am reluctant to pay more than half of the price for shipping. May pick it up myself in July when I should be in Germany on a business trip...

in the mean time I sorted out the tail and the angle gearbox. I wanted it removable for potential maintenance but the tail piece had it set up in a manner to fix it permanently. I did not use anything new... no new and brilliant ideas... just careful use of dremel tool and a lot of patience.... trial and error worked fine so now this part is ready. Nothing is fixed yet and I will restraint myself from using glue before I figure out te removable tail part...

more to follow...

gh

SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-16-2016 06:20 PM  3 years ago
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

MyPosts All Forum Topic
OK ladies and gentlemen

I have another question for those wiser than I...

I am attempting to make the tail removable... and so far all the other options are not feasible for one or another reason...
The one option I am contemplating right now is this one. I made two ribs out of plywood.... One I will attach at the end of the main body (where the black line is on the fuselage) and the other will be in the tail part, where the dotted line is visible. I intend to "firmly" bond these two pieces in the fuselage and then I would like to use six screws to bond it together...

I know that it all depends on how well I bond the wooden ribs to the fuselage so epoxy with microbaloons and carbon fiber pieces should suffice...
or will they?

If anyone has any experiences with such setup please chim in... I saw the wonders that Ian and Steve did with their helicopters, but those are larger fusleages and there the tail piece is modled differenlty...

I guess the tail does NOT have to be removable, but it would ease storage and handling in the man cave for maintenance and scale detailing....

gh

SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 11 pages [ <<    <     4      5     ( 6 )     7      8     NEXT    >> ] 27393 views POST REPLY
HomeScale✈️AircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion Docs  Vario Bell 412 electric
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 14  Topic Subscribe

Friday, October 18 - 8:26 pm - Copyright © 2000-2019 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online