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HomeScaleAircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion Docs  Vario Bell 412 electric
05-08-2015 10:06 AM  3 years agoPost 21
Andy01

rrApprentice

Brisbane, Australia

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Barry

My preference is also around 5%, but if you choose a governor speed that is based on the lowest you would ever take your lipos (eg. using 3.7V/cell), the ESC should be able to maintain it (or very close to) even with 2%.

However, if you choose a governor speed based on a higher voltage, then a larger headroom is definitely required.

Colin

Vario Long Ranger 700e
Seahawk 600
UH-1N 500
Baumann EC-145 800+ (coming soon )

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05-08-2015 04:56 PM  3 years agoPost 22
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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You need a motor with and 8mm shaft to hang the clutch.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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05-08-2015 05:00 PM  3 years agoPost 23
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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Ok that narrows down the selection further....

Gh

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05-08-2015 05:04 PM  3 years agoPost 24
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Suggestion!!
Since you have the info on your motor and gearing, why not just plug it into your Castle Link Demo mode and let it tell you where it will be happy!!

Open Castle Link, choose the ESC you want to use and fill in the info, just like you would if setting up a regular ESC..

Hope this will help you get the right set up....

Have fun

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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05-08-2015 09:46 PM  3 years agoPost 25
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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Hmmm that could work.... I will be home tomorrow and will do that. Stan thank you for this suggestion.

Gh

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05-08-2015 10:08 PM  3 years agoPost 26
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Glad To Help Out
Seems not a lot of people know about this feature.. it sure will take the guess work out of the equation!!!! You can try different gearing or KV until the hs numbers are not in the red, and know when the ESC is "happy"!!!

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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05-21-2015 08:51 AM  3 years agoPost 27
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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OK... got a great deal on a 20t clutch and picked up a brand new (discontinued) Hyperion HS-4035 400KV e-motor...

With this I get the following headspeeds:
RPM 100% 1507
RPM 95% 1432
RPM 90% 1360
RPM 85% 1292
RPM 80% 1228

I believe this will do...

gh

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05-23-2015 08:06 PM  3 years agoPost 28
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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So got a bit more done today...
I have to mount the mechanics in a safe manner... and so that it will not produce additional vibrations....
And I decided to fabricate a plate on which to mount the mechanics. At this stage it is just plywood, but I intend to reinforce it with fiberglass and fabric...

Then I cut open a whole in which I mounted the mechanics and attached the plate with dual sided tape for further testfitting and adjustments.

The mechanisc sit in nicely and even have a slight forward tilt. Although I hoped for more space in the cabin this will sufice. The use of plate will enable me to mount most of the electronic components above it and get it out of the view and under the top cover for easy access. Or such is the plan at this point.

The top cover fits nicely and will allow for the electronics to be placed under the cover. I already made the hole for the ventilation, which is the same as on the real helicopter.

so much for now...

gh

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05-23-2015 10:32 PM  3 years agoPost 29
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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Looks good! That's the beauty of the 412 fuse, the doghouse is much taller than the B and D models.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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05-27-2015 07:20 PM  3 years agoPost 30
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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OK so I hit the next speed bump...
The motor arrived today... and the Vario clutch fits perfectly... BUT.. the motor itself is too wide to fit in the mechanics...

This is how it should be...

And now I have two options... resell the motor and get another clutch, so that both would fit the width of the frames (least preferable)
adopt and overcome (most likely)

I really do not want to cut the frames... so the other option is to fit a belt between the main gear and clutch...
My question for those smarter than me (most everyone at this point) how does a belt influence the RPM math.... does the length of the belt play any role in the math or not?

gh

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05-27-2015 10:32 PM  3 years agoPost 31
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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IMHO, if you have to replace them, a new set of side frames is cheaper than the other options. I personally would cut or mod the frames to make the motor fit. You may be able to just clearance the side frames enough to get the motor in the correct position, like I did with my skyfox frames. All I had to do was dremel a chamfer on the inside leading edge. Also, a 65 tooth main gear is larger in diameter, so the motor would not have to be so buried in the frames in order to contact the gear. Check out the pics. The belt length has no bearing on overall gear ratio, only the number of drive/driven teeth will change the ratio.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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05-28-2015 06:36 AM  3 years agoPost 32
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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Barry thank you...

I see what you did... will try to modd the frames but I think that my motor is thicker than the one you used...

if that will not work, then I will use the belt and connect the drive train with it. Especially if it has no input on the gear ratio.

gh

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05-28-2015 04:37 PM  3 years agoPost 33
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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Cool. The 3rd pic shows this set up with the same motor that you have a 400kv Hyperion. If you want a sanity check before you cut/mod the frames, try flipping the motor over and see how far it will have to be moved to engage the gears. It's a simple eyeball check for a rough estimate. This may change the way you approach this install. You may end up better off adapting a 65 tooth main gear.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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05-28-2015 05:04 PM  3 years agoPost 34
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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Cool so it can be done. The issue I have with 65t gear is that it will spin the main blades too fast. In this case I would need a 500kv motor ....

Gh

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05-28-2015 07:29 PM  3 years agoPost 35
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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If I'm not mistaken, those mechs that you have are a lower tooth count than the 65 tooth main gear that I recommended. If that's the case, the 65 tooth main gear would give you a slower head speed, not faster. I have not done a conversion on your style of mechs, so I don't know what all is involved with swapping in that 65 tooth main gear. But it doesn't look to be that involved. Possibly a custom hub for the gear to ride on, or there may be a vario piece that you can adapt.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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05-28-2015 07:48 PM  3 years agoPost 36
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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yes my bad. I was typing as I walked... not thinking clearly...
If I use the 53t gear (the one currently on the mechanics) I get 1507 at 100% RPM. If I replace the gears for 65t I get 1229 RPM... which is too low...

hence I would have to increase the KV to 500 to get 1536 PRM at max...

I guess I'll try to make this thing work first but if not I'll have to swap the gearing and motor to get back in the comfort zone...

gh

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06-03-2015 07:48 PM  3 years agoPost 37
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

OK here is one more try at what I have at home. Do you guys think that this configuration might work? Honestly I can't see why it should not but I have absolutely no experiences with the clutch system...

gh

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06-03-2015 08:30 PM  3 years agoPost 38
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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It fits nicely....
if only it works...

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06-03-2015 10:07 PM  3 years agoPost 39
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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You can hang the motor under the mechs with zero issues. IMHO, I would recommend making a motor mount that fastens the motor to the mechs frames, not the fuse. You don't want the motor moving around independently of the mechs and stripping gears. The 65 tooth main gear that we discussed should be a large enough diameter that the gears will mesh with the motor in an upright position in the frames. You may have to adapt the gear for your application, but it can't be that involved.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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06-03-2015 10:23 PM  3 years agoPost 40
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Barry

Great. We have a winner here...
I plan to firmly mount the motor to the mechanics... This setup is only for the proof of concept purpose...

Gh

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HomeScaleAircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion Docs  Vario Bell 412 electric
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