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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › brown out issue??
03-29-2015 08:12 PM  3 years agoPost 1
johnbs8

rrKey Veteran

roseville michigan

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was flying my logo 550sx, did a punch out and lost controll of heli. i had no control!! the castle logg shows an amp spike of 120 amp at time of power loss. im using a castle edge 120 amp esc with herc miniG2 Bec. when it hit earth i had servo controll again and no sats were blinking. this was on an IKON. so after talking it over with some friends weve determined that the Ikon browned out possibly. upon further inspection, i noticed i never disconected the power wire on the throttle lead from the ESC. Bec sais
"REMOVE THE POSITIVE ESC CONNECTION TO THE Rx TO PREVENT POWER CONFLICTS WITH THE ESC OR USE WR’s GLITCHBUSTER TO ISOLATE THE ESC POWER"

now i also had my nitro after flying fine the week before, on spool up the heli just nosed over. same thing as with mikado...no blinking sats... i started to think the two are an issue with the DX8 radio as this sort of thing has happend to a buddy of mine. bad Rf board in his DX8...

what do yall think. do ya think two different issues, one with the wire not being removed on esc or ...? thanks, John

TT X50 Nitro
Warp 360
Logo 550sx
TeaM KicKnWinG

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03-29-2015 08:40 PM  3 years agoPost 2
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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The Hercules mini G2 BEC is rated for 20 amps peak, 10 amps continuous current. That should be more than sufficient to power your Logo.

When using an external regulator such as the G2, in conjunction with an ESC having its own built-in BEC, it is pretty much mandatory that you disable the ESC's built-in BEC before you go fly.

The easiest way to do this is to remove the three pins from the ESC connector - remember which wire goes where -- fold the center usually red wire back on the cable, then slip on a piece of heat shrink tubing to keep the free end from flopping around, and to insulate it. This allows you to use the internal BEC later if you move the ESC to a new set up.

Unless they are designed for parallel operation, these small regulators do not like seeing another power source tied into their outputs. The regulator feedback control loops may begin do weird things, and perhaps go into a nasty oscillation that can either just drive the output voltage nuts, or kill the regulator. ALWAYS disable the internal BEC of an ESC when using an external regulator for system power.

-----

As for your nitro bird problem, that is most likely an unrelated issue. Be very careful about assuming YOUR radio has the same problem as someone else as it is RARE for your radio to be bad in the same way as someone elses, most likely purchased at a different time, from a different manufacturing lot.

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You don't say what power source your nitro bird has, if it is FBL, and if so, which controller you are using. That would help.

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Are you using DSMx or DSM2 protocol receivers? DSMx receivers no longer have the "low voltage" warning -- blinking LEDs should the voltage drop below "good" levels. DSM2 receivers still have the low voltage indication. DSMx receivers won't blink if power droops momentarily.

DSMx receivers WILL be flashing should you lose the RF link while the battery is plugged in.

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If your Nitro bird is FBL, you may have just been inattentive at spool up, and let the heli get ahead of you on cyclic, and nosing over, especially at very low head speeds.

What power source are you using in your nitro heli?

-----

In any event, keep in mind that the standard servo plug is rated for about 5 amps maximum. Your regulator is good for 10 amps continuous, 20 amps max. Exceeding the amp capacity on the connector pins usually results in the pins which are carrying the current to heat up. You can also experience a higher than usual voltage drop across the connector if you routinely exceed the pin's ratings.

Wire gauge and length (too small, too long) can also cause headaches. Does your CC controller still have the small toroidal ring (donut) on its ESC to RX lead? If not, you should seriously consider adding one to the mix. After looking at the WR mini data sheet, if that doesn't have a toroidal core on its output leads, consider using one there, too. In either case, the more turns of wire that you can wrap around the donut, the better its performance will be.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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03-29-2015 08:48 PM  3 years agoPost 3
johnbs8

rrKey Veteran

roseville michigan

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The nitro is using a ar7200bx and a life pack for power. Been using it like this for years. i bet your right about the got ahead of me theory. Head speed may not have been up and i tried to lift off in foward motion. Hmm im thinkn thats it.
funny thing about the mikado though, i have an opti power ultra gaurd installed. Shouldnt it have armed?

TT X50 Nitro
Warp 360
Logo 550sx
TeaM KicKnWinG

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03-29-2015 09:06 PM  3 years agoPost 4
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Your AR7200BX may need some additional mounting tape between it and the heli for better vibration isolation. Or maybe you just need to use some new tape if the original has some time on it.

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I did a quick read through of the Opti power whizbang, if it is installed correctly, and if it works as advertised, it should have done its job.

There are some caveats on the Opti power unit, too, with respect to choice of your normal power source, in particular, making sure the one you use is OK with having a voltage from another source fed back in from an external source.

Perhaps in your zeal to have an ultra safe power source, you've introduced too much complexity and now have a battle going on between the WR regulator, the ESC with still having its red center wire connected, and the Opti power backup all connected. The AR7200BX is a DSMx RX, so it shouldn't have the brownout indication. You won't see flashing LEDs if the power drooped during flight.

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You said your ESC is an EDGE 120. Is that an EDGE 120HV (because I don't SEE any other EDGE 120 on the CC site). If so, the 120HV does NOT have a built-in BEC, and requires that you keep the red-center wire connected, as the ESC uses the system regulated power for its own needs.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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03-29-2015 09:57 PM  3 years agoPost 5
johnbs8

rrKey Veteran

roseville michigan

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Your def right about needing new tape. Its original tape from 2 seasons!! I gotta change it. As a matter of fact im going to change all the tape on my other models!!
Thanks for the input. I suspected the wire from esc was the issue once i realized it... thanks for helping shed some light!!

TT X50 Nitro
Warp 360
Logo 550sx
TeaM KicKnWinG

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03-30-2015 01:47 AM  3 years agoPost 6
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Unless they are designed for parallel operation
A "diode OR" arrangement could be made....but the downside is the output voltages of the parallel devices would have to be increased by ~1V to account for the drop in voltage across the diodes.

To disable the use of an internal SBEC when one uses an external SBEC is to "fold the internals red wire back" is the rule of thumb.

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03-30-2015 04:58 AM  3 years agoPost 7
nwmtech

rrApprentice

Bellingham, WA

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The Edge 120 does not have an internal BEC so removing the red wire is not needed.

If you've got a ton of flights on the 7200BX then it's unlikely you simply didn't let it spool up enough. Also, a single layer of gray 3M is perfectly fine on a nitro with the 7200BX.

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03-30-2015 05:13 AM  3 years agoPost 8
don s

rrElite Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

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Send the transmitter in anyway, what's the harm?

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

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03-30-2015 06:11 AM  3 years agoPost 9
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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The Edge 120 does not have an internal BEC so removing the red wire is not needed.
Noted in my earlier reply, in BLUE.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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03-30-2015 06:42 AM  3 years agoPost 10
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Noted in my earlier reply, in BLUE.
I saw that....

This whole situation can be easily avoided....and it can be done so by the design of any external SBEC.

An internal SBEC carries both throttle signal...and internal SBEC power through the connector wires.

If any external SBEC "terminates" the internal SBECs power wire pin....through a 200K resistor...on the external SBECs PCB...

An internal SBEC rated at 20A output....at the external SBEC would only consume 40 microA....next to nothing....insignificant.

Now....since the ESCs internal SBEC has been..."terminated"...
on the external SBECs PCB...drawing such miniscule current....

The "Red Wire Foldback Method" issue has been totally "terminated".

All my external SBECs employ this, so that it's easier for everyone...young and old alike....

Patent pending....

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03-30-2015 07:06 AM  3 years agoPost 11
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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In addition, with the "red wire foldback method"....one creates an antenna....unless the signal is "terminated".

And whatever harmonics are present on a given internal SBEC....will be radiated...in very near proximity to the FBL controller.

If such harmonic signals are picked up in the FBL, the FBL's MEMS gyros can be interfered with....as the MEMS gyros have "passbands" in which there cannot be any interfering signal at the passband frequency.

But all is OK.

When you employ the "red wire foldback method"....simply solder an inline 200K resistor to the internal SBEC output...and the to ground......easy

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03-30-2015 07:11 AM  3 years agoPost 12
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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All my external SBECs employ this
I'll identify the exact resistor used to do this...on the pics of my SBECs I posted on RR

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03-30-2015 03:32 PM  3 years agoPost 13
johnbs8

rrKey Veteran

roseville michigan

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so if the red wire is needed... what now lol. im DEF returning the radio!!
i have castle looking over the loggs. hopefully they know something soon.

TT X50 Nitro
Warp 360
Logo 550sx
TeaM KicKnWinG

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03-30-2015 04:30 PM  3 years agoPost 14
kamaroman540

rrApprentice

Maple Shade N.J

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Hi
Is the logo550sx grounded-did u ground the boom to the motor mount n the tail to the boom??My logo400se did the same thing,like the radio just shut it self off and when I came to the heli it had a solid light on its sat.

LOGO600SX LOGO400SE

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