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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Failsafe Done? Now, Is It Possible To "Y" Connect 2 Satelites To One Port?
03-25-2015 02:42 AM  3 years agoPost 1
icanfly

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hate that my 300 always takes a dive sideways, like this afternoon, when the rx resets from a static jolt. I didn't get enough silicone lube on before I took it out back, drive me nuts and I know a few fixes, I certainly did not expect a thing since a flight yesterday was a full battery. The rx reset always comes at a minute into flight, damn static.

Any failsafe on the Talon 35amp esc?

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03-25-2015 12:32 PM  3 years agoPost 2
Eury

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If it loses signal it will shut the motor off. However, your receiver is what controls the actual failsafe and would still be putting out a signal. Hopefully it is set to shut off, and not hold last signal.

Nick Crego

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03-25-2015 01:36 PM  3 years agoPost 3
icanfly

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it continually sends the servos to their end points when the rx resets, two full down and on full up, tail no change. Now either it's in the gyro or the esc.

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03-25-2015 01:45 PM  3 years agoPost 4
Eury

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Esc wouldn't be sending signals to any of the servos. Some FBL have fail safe settings, though.

I'd start by resetting the Failsafe in the receiver. If that's right, the rest should fall into place.

Nick Crego

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03-25-2015 02:17 PM  3 years agoPost 5
icanfly

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good point. After searching for Spektrum failsafe I found a thread saying to pull the bind plug before holding the tx bind button and turning it on. What they don't say is to bind first and set the servos where you want them to be in failsafe, then rebind in smartsafe mode without the bind pin and the throttle/cp stick where you want the servos to stay. I think this was why the tail servo was fine and the cp servos went to their end points as my binding was only at 0 throttle and 100% = pitch. I'll try the binding again to see if it works, I hate those nasty little static resets, if i hadn't learned enough to never forget some silicone lube on the tail belt, yea well I did yesterday and smack down sideways on icy hard ground, a few things are broken, lol, certainly not the first time.

Good to know this stuff in advance however some of us never learn the easy way, by reading the manual, and you know how great manuals can be.

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03-26-2015 05:24 PM  3 years agoPost 6
icanfly

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I went through a fail safe method as hinted on in the last post with some result, still have to test out a few more things to be 100% sure the rx is doing the right thing.

Never mind that so much, it's days are limited as I'm looking into hooking up a satellite rx to slim things down wire and rx bulk wise. The sats are going on a Tarot zyx-s2 and I also have a 3gx that may get the same thing onto a 450, it has two ports for satellites. Someone I know has an ikon brain which I believe utilizes a similar configuration.

another way of possibly putting two satellites on a gyro would be into a spare set of male pins on the gyro. On the zyx-s2 specifically it has the sat going to the "rudd" port on the gyro with the bind pins marked as "pit,ele,aux". can this port be used for a second sat, or is it possible to "Y" connect two sats into one port on the gyro? under any circumstances can two sats be "Y" connected?

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03-26-2015 05:55 PM  3 years agoPost 7
Eury

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I don't think you can Y a satellite in, but check the manual for the FBL all the same. You might be able to.If this is on a 300, there's no reason to have 2 satellites.

Nick Crego

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03-26-2015 06:21 PM  3 years agoPost 8
icanfly

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yes it's for the 300. Practice for the big stuff on the cheap, not minding anything done in mini scale can be up-sized any time, to fs even.

If the signal is identical and there's no logic in the gyro other than to utilize digital info, my reasoning stems from the fact that the sats are tuned to the same signal therefore receiving the same data, if power to them is equal. That's where I think the possibility of reliability issues arises, they share the same power source so the amount sent to each sat is divided if "y" connected however only needing 3.3v each if specs are correct.

The 300 is so small at a distance it isn't worth two sats but the method is to be considered for larger projects.

Like a tv set or audio amp the signal goes to where it finds the least path of resistance, the amp doesn't care how many antennas other than the info being transmitted, satellites being not more than powered antennae, hmm. I could be wrong though.

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03-26-2015 06:28 PM  3 years agoPost 9
Eury

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I know on other gyros (and Spek receivers with multiple sats), it is auto switching between sats to whichever is the better signal. There is logic involved, it's not just Y cable together.

Nick Crego

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03-27-2015 01:13 AM  3 years agoPost 10
EEngineer

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TX

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I don't think you can Y a satellite in
You can't....

The signal wire on each satellite is an digital output signal.

And you can't wire to digital signal outputs together and expect it to work correctly....or destroy the output "drivers" on each satellite.

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03-30-2015 02:16 PM  3 years agoPost 11
icanfly

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ontario

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then to make a "y" connection to a gyro that has one port and no logic to differentiate between what rx sat is getting the strongest signal, you would need a circuit that could do that like a logic board in other gyros that have more than one port.

Power of positive and negative stay the same no matter what, only the signal from the sats that is strongest would be switched to with a DIODE or similar switching/gate type unit, it can't be all that hard to do since there are expansion module add-ons to a standard rx.

You see, I see, making things that could have gigantic zillion dollar returns, lol, ok, if I figure it out I can offer a unit for $5, you happy? I am, or,,,,,will be.

Signal diversity is the game plan here gents.

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03-31-2015 01:36 AM  3 years agoPost 12
EEngineer

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TX

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only the signal from the sats that is strongest
How will you determine which satellite is seeing a stronger signal?

The satellite output is a digital bit stream.

A diode can't do it.

What digital logic are you planning to use to decode the bit stream to parse the satellite signal strength data?

And to read the RSSI_ADR register in the radio IC?

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03-31-2015 01:53 AM  3 years agoPost 13
icanfly

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ontario

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then how is it done in the gyros with 2 sat ports, please?

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03-31-2015 01:55 AM  3 years agoPost 14
EEngineer

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TX

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The software reads the contents of the RSSI_ADR registers of the satellites and compares the signal strength difference.

Read the specs of the radio IC.

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03-31-2015 01:57 AM  3 years agoPost 15
icanfly

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ontario

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The AR6210 DSMX® 6-channel receiver is a great solution for all model aircraft requiring full range up to six channels. This DuaLink® receiver simultaneously gathers information from two receivers that is processed by patent pending Spektrum™ software that combines it to form the most vivid picture of an RF signal. This dual path-redundancy, plus the fact each of the two receivers is located in a slightly different location, exposes each to a different RF environment and creates a bulletproof RF link in all conditions.
from the sales pages of the 6210, rx's that I'm presently using but want to get off the helis in exchange for a pair of sats only.

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03-31-2015 01:59 AM  3 years agoPost 16
EEngineer

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TX

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sales pages of the 6210
Sales pages contain absolutely no data as to the workings of the radio IC.

It most certainly doesn't explain how to parse the digital bit stream to pick out the RSSI_ADR data.

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03-31-2015 02:37 AM  3 years agoPost 17
icanfly

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ontario

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I understand, Tarot makes an expansion module for two sats I just ordered, they figured it out. I suppose the next gen will include a dual sat port pair.

The separate rx/gyro grouping that entails several go-between wires will be nice to remove in the future. The particular machine of interest is perfected, now time to trim the excesses.

My 3gx has two sat ports so it won't be a problem.

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03-31-2015 02:47 AM  3 years agoPost 18
EEngineer

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TX

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Getting OT....

You can't simply "Y" to satellite RX cables together and plug them into one port.

The hardware architecture doesn't work like that.

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03-31-2015 04:53 AM  3 years agoPost 19
EEngineer

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TX

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doesn't work like that
Meaning two radio ICs(CYRF9636 for example) are using the 3-pin ports to communicate(MISO/MOSI = Master In Slave Out/Master Out Slave In).

These ports are bi-directional(can either Tx or RX data...but not both at the same time). This allows a H/W comm. configuration that allows one sat. to be "master" and another to be a "slave"....for a variety of designer configurations, depending upon the application.

With an AR7200BX RX, the internal ARBX radio IC is the master...a sat. would be the "slave".

With a MiniV...with two sat. ports....the MiniV has H/W that emulates the MISO/MOSI....so that it can use two sats for RF diversity....with no internal radio IC.

In either case, via the MISO/MOSI ports, the main processor is continually requesting "data" from the radio IC/ICs....and stores such data in a memory "buffer"....with a separate "buffer" for each radio IC's data.

Then the main processor can first examine the RSSI memory location of each buffer and then determine which sat. is receiving the strongest signal.

Then it knows which buffer has "better" data based on signal strength....ignoring the data in the weaker SS buffer.

FWIW

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03-31-2015 05:29 AM  3 years agoPost 20
EEngineer

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TX

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While this is occurring, the main processor in an FBL controller, is continually "requesting" data from the three MEMS gyros...and storing such data in a similar manner....via the gyro ICs datacomm. ports to a different port in the main processor.

Here's where H/W architecture differs....

The Invensense single-axis gyros in a blue MiniV have analog rate outputs.....

Later Invensense gyros have digital outputs....Silverline...

Analog outputs must be converted to digital...via what is know as an ADC(analog to digital converter)....which causes a conversion delay in the FBL's "feedback loop"...and such analog rate output is subject to "electrical" noise....and such conversion has to be done by the main processor...as if it doesn't have enough to do already....

With a digital output, there is no such delay....just the delay of the transmission of the gyro's data to be properly processed.

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Failsafe Done? Now, Is It Possible To "Y" Connect 2 Satelites To One Port?
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