RunRyder RC
WATCH
 4 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 2703 views TOPIC CLOSED
HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › A123 battery for the 700 class macjine....?
03-16-2015 01:47 PM  3 years agoPost 1
es1co2bar3

rrKey Veteran

winnetka california

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I know these battery is way more powerful than the lipo], you know I was thinking about a conversion what
you guys thinks....? Have anyone tried it yet....?

A123 vs lipo]

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-16-2015 02:10 PM  3 years agoPost 2
Four Stroker

rrElite Veteran

Atlanta

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A123 are flight packs for the RX, servos, FBL.

They are NOT motor batteries since they have maybe 60% of the energy density of LiPo's.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-16-2015 03:02 PM  3 years agoPost 3
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

They were used as motor packs before fast charge LiPos became available. If you do a search here you'll find some folks who even ran them in their Protos 500s back in the day. Some folks are still using them in planks. They're so durable they're hard to kill.

However, LiPos eventually eclipsed the benefits A123s had at that time and no one I know is still using them as motor packs.

  

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-16-2015 03:17 PM  3 years agoPost 4
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A123 60C discharge are not more powerful compared to what's out there now.

They are about 100grams per cell. Aka...Heavy but can take a beating unlike soft cells.

Great for 2 or 3 cell planes.

Google
zip charging a123

They can be charged at 10C and if I recall correctly good for maybe 1000 cycles.

I use them in my gasser for the Rx.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-16-2015 03:48 PM  3 years agoPost 5
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Way I see it, A123's and Lipos have both been out for a while now. If there were any viability whatsoever that an A123 would be better than a Lipo and would make a suitable replacement, it would have happened already.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-16-2015 11:35 PM  3 years agoPost 6
es1co2bar3

rrKey Veteran

winnetka california

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

They were used as motor packs before fast charge LiPos became available. 
"Yes when Lipo was 15-20 C, it was the A123 that give
the heli the power it need for a quick insane flights.

Someone say A123 can't compete with nothing of today
I highly doubt that.

these high C rating Battery don't seem accurate to me,
we don't have nothing to charge a pack at 50 or 70 C
so how can we tell.?

We can't even tell the difference between a 40 and 60 C disbursement.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-17-2015 12:07 AM  3 years agoPost 7
Dan Minick

rrKey Veteran

Columbus, WI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

these high C rating Battery don't seem accurate to me,
we don't have nothing to charge a pack at 50 or 70 C
so how can we tell.?
We can't even tell the difference between a 40 and 60 C disbursement.
C rating is about discharge, not charging.

I have flown both 45c and 65c Thunder Power packs back to back in the same machine. I can absolutely tell the difference

Team Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-17-2015 03:11 AM  3 years agoPost 8
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

C rating is about discharge, not charging.
Many manufacturers specify a pack's max charge rate in terms of "C" as well as the pack's max discharge rate. Take a look at the label or specifications for max charge rate. Usually it's 1-5C, but some manufacturer's have charge rates as high as 12C.

  

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-17-2015 03:33 AM  3 years agoPost 9
Dan Minick

rrKey Veteran

Columbus, WI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I should have clarified that. I was thinking he was talking the 25-70C most people are looking at

Team Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-17-2015 03:38 PM  3 years agoPost 10
es1co2bar3

rrKey Veteran

winnetka california

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Correct me if I am wrong for I am no Google you know,

I know for a fact that many folks got the C] argument
about battery backwards half of the time.

"Someone tell me that manufacturer has raise eyebrows
with the claim about theirs C rating on their pack
to attract buyer.

what I understand is that let use a 3 s pack for example"

it can be safely charge at 1amp t0 3amp it doesn't matter the C ratings. At this charge rate you get a safe and accurate charged pack.

most folks I see charge the pack at higher amp because
the C] ratio is 40 or above,

he said this type of charge practice is not safe and accurate and it results in the pack start loosing it
tight sexy feel in other word start puffing.

Now what I learn of the A123 it doesn't have a brain
like the Lipo to detect current and discharge rate
and weare N tear].

you can charge them anyhow.

I know quiet a few pilot that will never put Lipo on their bird.

I am just turn on by the short continue power of the A123.
that why I was thinking of trying them on a 700.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-17-2015 03:56 PM  3 years agoPost 11
cmezip

rrNovice

Denver, Co

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I ran A123's about 6 or 7 years ago. The harder you run them the better they worked. They were a great alternative to pricey lipos then. With the cost of a decent 45c pack today and the weight difference I don't see a benefit. I also am happy with charging at 1c on my packs, 30 minutes is plenty quick enough for me. If I was needing a 6s Lipo I always ran 7s A123 to compensate for the voltage difference. At first I was thinking this post was from 6 or 7 years ago.

Steve

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-17-2015 09:14 PM  3 years agoPost 12
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Do the math.calculate how many cells you would need for a 700.then see how much an A123 pack would weigh and if you can fit it in the frame.As said they have both been out for years.It was tried and everyone went back to lipo

Compass helis Support Team
PerformancePlusRC field rep
Mini Titan/SE
TEAM KBDD

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-19-2015 02:23 AM  3 years agoPost 13
es1co2bar3

rrKey Veteran

winnetka california

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I am when i find the time, and i gurantee you will follow after you seen the outcome, listen bro not because folks don't do certain thing in this
Hobby it doesn't mean they don't like it
or is running away or some sort.

Maybe they don't have the time or the patients, for it take time to setup a A123
power plant.]

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-19-2015 01:06 PM  3 years agoPost 14
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I can guarantee you I will NOT follow.I have already done EXTENSIVE research into this back when this was tempting.

The nominal Voltage of A123 is slightly lower than lipo(3.6vpc)so you need a few more cells to get a roughly equivilant voltage.So a heli flying on a 12s lipo will need a 14-16 cell A123.its going to weigh a ton AND the frames are going to have to be modified...too much work for almost no gain(actually a HUGE weight penalty).....The upside before was quick charging but lipos and lipo chargers have advanced tremendously 5C charging and 1000+watt chargers do the trick.there is no real reason to use A123 as a flight pack.Guys were tearing apart cordless tool battery packs to try this right around 2007-2008.I'm sure there are still threads

Compass helis Support Team
PerformancePlusRC field rep
Mini Titan/SE
TEAM KBDD

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-19-2015 01:44 PM  3 years agoPost 15
Funky Trex

rrElite Veteran

Westerville, OH - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If you do some research, you will save yourself plenty of time. Many, many people before you have tried going with a123 packs. Yes they work, but Lipos come out on top in nearly every department.

Use the search function and save yourself a lot of time. Nobody will follow your lead. It has been tried every which way and the idea was worn out years ago. Yes they work... but they suck when compared to the alternatives. Lipos rule

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-19-2015 06:18 PM  3 years agoPost 16
es1co2bar3

rrKey Veteran

winnetka california

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Lipo come out on top "Really"....?
How many home as the A123 burn down

let talk safety for a min how about that....with LIPO.?
A123 is slightly lower than lipo(3.6vpc)so you need a few more cells
I am working so I can't even dig up some useful info
for you, but since you are aware of the A123 I think
you're giving the LiPO way too much credit.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-19-2015 07:21 PM  3 years agoPost 17
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You were not talking about safety at all.That is the only thing where a123 wins...there is no question its safer than lipo as far as fires...but your original post said PERFORMNCE you said it was more powerful than lipo and that is just not true andas far as weight to energy there is no comparison.

Compass helis Support Team
PerformancePlusRC field rep
Mini Titan/SE
TEAM KBDD

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-19-2015 07:47 PM  3 years agoPost 18
Fauropitotto

rrApprentice

Tampa, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I don't know about that man...

http://www.batteryspace.com/A123-Sy...V-2500-mAh.aspx

3.2V nominal 2500mAH @ 74grams per cell.

Most 700 class helis run a 4000-5000mAH lipo at 12S.

So what you need is 44.4V nominal with 5000mAH capacity. To get 5000mah, you'd have to have two of these A123 cells in parallel (148gr), and then to get 44.4V you'd have to get 14 of these cells in series. So 28 cells in total to equal the power capacity of a 5000mAH 12S lipo.

28*74gr = 2072gram pack
$17/cell with a 48C discharge = $476 to wire something like this together

26mm diam x 65.15mm length dimensions, say you stack it 3 tall, gives you a battery pack 78mm tall, 260mm long, and 65.15mm wide or 1318 cubic cm in volume.

Now compared to a 12S set of two 6S 5000mAH packs in series:

http://hobby king.com/hobby king/store/__14616__Turnigy_nano_tech_5000mah_6S_45_90C_Lipo_Pack.html

You'll have two packs 2*813gr = 1626gram pack
$95/pack with a 40C discharge = $190

157mm length x 49mm tall x 50mm wide, gives you a 12S stick of 314mm long, 49mm tall, and 50mm wide or 754 cubic cm in volume.

So using these two batteries and building comparable packs, with comparable discharge rates, and comparable capacities, lipo wins hands down.

For a 12S 5000mAH pack, Lipo has an energy density of 3.0mAh/gram, vs A123 of 2.4mAh/gram.

Lipo is 60% cheaper than A123, and 43% smaller in volume.

I'm very interested to see what arguments you have in claiming that A123 packs are even remotely practical or reasonable as flight packs for 700class helis.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-19-2015 08:49 PM  3 years agoPost 19
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

And that my friends,is a wrap.excellant post.That sums it up completely and the numbers dont lie.Using a123 you get a big heavy expensive pack.Oh and thats why guys were ripping the cordless tool packs apart,theycould get them cheaper that way

Compass helis Support Team
PerformancePlusRC field rep
Mini Titan/SE
TEAM KBDD

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
03-19-2015 10:47 PM  3 years agoPost 20
Trexwilly

rrVeteran

FL USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Nice research Fauropitotto!

That about sums it up!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH
 4 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 2703 views TOPIC CLOSED
HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › A123 battery for the 700 class macjine....?
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 7  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, July 18 - 12:24 am - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online