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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Trex 700e v2 with BeastX help
03-15-2015 09:08 PM  3 years agoPost 1
v58 fuy

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UK - Kent

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All,

Can someone help me before I go crazy, I am building a Trex 700e v2 and am trying to get the swash level at top / mid / bottom collective stick (running BeastX FBL unit).

I am able to achieve level swash at mid and bottom stock, but cannot seem to completely get rid of a slight forward elevator issue at full collective.

My question is, can I use servo endpoint adjustment to correct the tilted swash at full stick , or do I have to keep trying mechanically to get rid of the problem?

David

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03-15-2015 10:31 PM  3 years agoPost 2
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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Use mechanical setup and a smidgen of servo centering to get the swash level at the 0-degree (mid-stick) position.

Then, use the swash servo's end point adjustments to get the swash level at the max up & max down travel.

But, next time, post these kinds of setup questions in the flybarless section.

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03-15-2015 10:57 PM  3 years agoPost 3
v58 fuy

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UK - Kent

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Thank you for your reply, some people had said not to use servo endpoint adjustment with the BeastX, but I wasn't sure.

Your last comment wasn't called for, I'm sorry but people come on Runryder often when they need help quickly - I don't need to be treated like a naughty school boy who's done something wrong.

David

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03-18-2015 05:39 AM  3 years agoPost 4
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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relocate the ball link on the servo horn try different holes to get it mechanically right

Watch at YouTube

Insha Allah made in america

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03-18-2015 07:33 AM  3 years agoPost 5
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Y'all need to read page 64 in the manual. I've got a couple of the BeastX units and if you try to level a swashplate with the radio the FBL unit looks at this as a cyclic command.
My question is, can I use servo endpoint adjustment to correct the tilted swash at full stick , or do I have to keep trying mechanically to get rid of the problem?
You may do whatever you want but again I would refer you to page 64 in the manual. So, IMHO the answer to your question is NO. What may be happening is that your servo arms are too short and at extremes of travel like high and low pitch the servo geometry is off enough to be causing what you are seeing in this statement:
I am able to achieve level swash at mid and bottom stock, but cannot seem to completely get rid of a slight forward elevator issue at full collective.
The radio flies the FBL controller, the FBL controller flies the rotor head, hence the FBL controller is where you need to be making your adjustments.

Not everyone will share this opinion but you're spending a lot of time leveling up the swash and what I would do is to use long enough servo arms to keep the swash traveling straight up and down, get the swash level at half stick by eye with the radio neutrals left alone and then go out and fly the machine. Adjust the swashplate mechanically so that the machine hovers the way you want and then flip it over and check the inverted hover and split the difference mechanically with the links so that the upright and inverted hover is as good as you can get it, then check the upright and inverted climbouts and adjust with the BeastX per the manual. On page 64 there is a specific warning not to use the subtrim/center adjust/endpoints on the radio. If the servo arms are the right length and the cyclic adjustments are made close to the recommended values you will see the blue light activate when you are close to 6 degrees of cyclic motion in the head.

TM

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03-18-2015 10:46 AM  3 years agoPost 6
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

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long beach calif

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keep the swash traveling straight up and down, get the swash level at half stick by eye with the radio neutrals left alone and then go out and fly
the eye cant see if the swash is level when you use the collective
the swash should stay level the only way to achieve this is by switching the ball links in he servo horn to a different hole

not hard to do with a swash plate leveler

the swash should setup right mechanically first.

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03-18-2015 03:46 PM  3 years agoPost 7
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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wc, I don't even own a swash leveling tool and I can tell you that you don't need one. Fly the machine and see what it needs. Leveling the swash to the mainshaft centerline isn't a guarantee of anything.

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03-18-2015 04:50 PM  3 years agoPost 8
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

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long beach calif

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TMoore
wc, I don't even own a swash leveling tool and I can tell you that you don't need one. Fly the machine and see what it needs. Leveling the swash to the mainshaft centerline isn't a guarantee of anything.
i believe you tee

i had a friend who could set pitch without a pitch gauge and he also
never used a pitch gauge

one day his tail kept blowing out and so i asked him how much pitch did
he have after he crashed he said he didnt know lol he bought a pitch gauge
the next day 6 yrs he never used one he was that good like you

i can to but i prefer to use tools like a professional would in a place of business.

my self i am a auto collision frame repair tech i can straighten a car by eye
but i prefer to use measuring tool so i have no doubt.

and you have many more years of experience in this hobby then i do TMooore and i respect that.

adding you to my friends list

for perfection i use tools

Insha Allah made in america

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03-18-2015 04:53 PM  3 years agoPost 9
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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TMoore is right
I own a swash tool for every machine I fly, BUT, these were critical when flying eccpm flybar machines with older generation radios and servos with inferior eccpm programming and centering capabilities compared to modern offerings.

Flybarless units compensate nicely for eccpm errors instantly and in real time.

A good build always helps, but FBL is a game changer here.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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03-18-2015 04:59 PM  3 years agoPost 10
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

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long beach calif

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Tyler
TMoore is right
I own a swash tool for every machine I fly, BUT, these were critical when flying eccpm flybar machines with older generation radios and servos with inferior eccpm programming and centering capabilities compared to modern offerings.
Flybarless units compensate nicely for eccpm errors instantly and in real time.
A good build always helps, but FBL is a game changer here.
so a level swash is not necessary is what your sayin ?

all my bird have near perfect swash movement up and down just because i like perfection

Insha Allah made in america

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03-18-2015 05:28 PM  3 years agoPost 11
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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Yep, the fbl corrects the swash. Not saying a level swash isn't good, just not critical. Don't interpret my post as justifying grossly erroneous building.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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03-18-2015 05:30 PM  3 years agoPost 12
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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WC,

Have you noticed that fbl machines no longer suffer from eccpm interactions similar to what we wrestled with 10, even 5 years ago? Eccpm interactions have been resolved with fbl controllers.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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03-18-2015 05:32 PM  3 years agoPost 13
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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Tyler
Yep, the fbl corrects the swash. Not saying a level swash isn't good, just not critical. Don't interpret my post as justifying grossly erroneous building.
thanks for the heads up ive learned something new but i still mechanically set my swash to perfection i could not sleep good at night if it wasnt lol

Insha Allah made in america

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03-18-2015 05:50 PM  3 years agoPost 14
zonker

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South Jordan, UT USA

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This has been a good thread to read and I apologize for jumping in but I've been dealing with a similar issue on a Goblin 700. I've never been able to get the swash plate level from bottom to top. At 0 pitch it's dead on but the elevator seems to make the swash tilt slightly at 100% pitch and again at -100% (just like the posted videos in this thread). Here's what I've tried: I've measured the servo arms to make sure they are the same length and checked to make sure the ball links are all in the same servo arm hole. I've changed the ball link positions on the servo arms, reset the radio and the ar7200bx, and installed a new servo. I even connected another receiver to check the ar7200bx and just no luck. So is it time, as Tyler suggests to just fly the thing and not worry too much about it?

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03-18-2015 06:00 PM  3 years agoPost 15
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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I get it close and fly the model in to trim. What I've seen on the BeastX and other FBL controllers is this; if the swash isn't close the model will drift. Case in point is that a 180CFX that I have was so far out from the factory in terms of the servo geometry on one servo that I had to use all of the electronic adjustment to square up the servo arm and it still flew OK. It wasn't great but you could throw the machine around and you would never notice how bad it was until you tried to piro the model, keep it one spot and then it showed up.

Back in the CCPM days swash level was way more important like Tyler said but with FBL not as much for the general pilot. Just because the swash may be setup perpendicular to the main shaft centerline doesn't always guarantee that the model will fly perfectly straight based on that setup.

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03-19-2015 12:53 AM  3 years agoPost 16
v58 fuy

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UK - Kent

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Guys,

Thank you very much for all the replies, it is a really interesting subject.

What I've done so far, is effectively reset the BeastX and then find the best servo horn positions which require virtually no sub trim - and things are better, but not exactly perfect, but what I've found out is quite interesting.

The standard fly bar version of the Trex 700e, has the servo balls such that the push/pull system is geometrically perfect, and the bell crank ball spacing, again so that geometry is spot on - but when they went flybarless, the new manual suggests to move the balls in on the servo wheels, meaning the geometry goes off, and to move the bell crank balls which further makes the geometry go off.

The manual changes are done to improve the resolution of the system to help the flybarless unit do it's thing - so sacrifice perfect geometry to gain resolution?

Should I reset the geometry back to the perfect flybar positions and sacrifice resolution???

David

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03-19-2015 01:17 AM  3 years agoPost 17
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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I'd fly it and see.
There's still no reason moving the balls would throw off the geometry.
You did move all three. Right?

I shortened the diameter of the balls on the wheels but left the bell cranks the same as a flybar set up.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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03-19-2015 02:24 AM  3 years agoPost 18
Skidpad

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Winston-Salem, NC

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This is an interesting thread, and I'll offer my BeastX experience as related to not only the OP's first post, but also several posts within the thread.

1: The BeastX (and/or AR7200BX) have no provision - nor *requirement!* - for leveling the swash anywhere outside of Setup Menu G. In that regard, it not only differs from FB setups, but also other FBL setups on the market today that do have provisions for this. Now, assuming you have a solid mechanical setup that has zero degrees at mid-stick and allows for reasonably level swash travel, there's no reason to be concerned with attempting to achieve a level swash at full-throw. With proper mechanical setup, the beastx will compensate for small deviations in level swash in its operation. Large deviations or unlevel swash should be looked into, as indicated in this thread. Mechanical setup is important, and I have indeed seen a faulty beastx causing uneven servo/swash travel.

2: Servo endpoint adjustments in a beastx do nothing for swash travel. Physical swashplate travel limits are accomplished in Setup Menu K (full pos/neg pitch), and L (cyclic throw/swash binding). Mechanical setup, and Setup Menu G, J, K, and L are critical to a properly flying BeastX machine.

These are your baseline adjustments in which you then can "tune" the system to your liking via dual rates and servo endpoints.

3: Servo endpoints control the *rate* at which the beastx tries to achieve a given movement. Endpoints do not affect swash travel...this is strictly controlled by steps K & L. For me personally, I find the beastx very slow at 100% DR and 100 on the endpoints. It is my preference to adjust endpoints, and find that it comes alive around 110; I like the feel of the system at around 122, but this is a personal preference and can be tuned to your liking.

4: A proper "perfect" FB setup should in no way take precedent over a FBL-unit specific "perfect" setup. Step J on the beastx needs to be 6 degrees so that the system knows the mechanical resolution of your heli. The color of the led is secondary on J, and it will fly fine at 6 and on the verge of red/blue, yet on the verge of purple/red at 6 should have the servo balls moved inward to achieve greater (finer) mechanical resolution. OP - yes, sacrifice "perfect" geometry for fbl unit desired resolution.

5: Sub-trim. A term commonly mis-used when discussing FBL setups. It is true that most (all?) FBL systems prohibit the use of sub-trim in the typical use of the term - that is, sub-trim from within the radio itself. This term is also used when setting up a FBL system and using sub-trim from within the unit itself (beastx), or within the software (Bavarian Demon, Skookum, iKon, etc) to achieve a level swash. This type of "sub-trim" is perfectly acceptable and necessary for a level swash during setup.

6: As mentioned a couple of times in this thread, use of a digital pitch gauge - instead of eyeballing it - is to achieve consistency in one's setup, and therefore keeping setup variables to a minimum. If you have confidence in your mechanical setup, verified it during build with a digital pitch gauge, and your fbl software is also happy, you should now have a solid foundation in which to fly. Proper tools and a consistent technique help get you to this point, and give you confidence. You decide what works best for you.

OP - good thread, but understand the beastx is a bit different than FB setup, and other FBL units in regards to setup.

Cheers.

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03-19-2015 03:59 AM  3 years agoPost 19
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Sub trim or center is only used on the BD units during the radio setup phase to align TX output of the center pulse and end points to what the unit is expecting. Once the unit is setup any sub trim or center adjust is seen as a command.

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