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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Why is crashing such a "badge of honor" for some people
01-20-2015 07:16 PM  3 years agoPost 21
Aaron29

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USA

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that is the trouble with the sim, you don't learn discipline only stick moves, if it gets away from you on the sim you crash and re set,
This is not how you should learn. You get discipline when you give discipline.

That's the key, when simming, take note of ALL crashes or dangerous situations. You should not be mindlessly pressing reset when in trouble or allowing maneuvers to toss into haphazard directions. If the thing crashes or flies to the pits or through you, reflect on that.

I say to myself, "I just crashed." Or, "Dang, the heli flew in an unsafe direction! That would have been a trip to the hospital."

And then say "Luckily it's the sim. I'll make sure I'm more consistent before doing it IRL."

I do FAR more maneuvers on the sim than I am even ready to take to the real deal. They just aren't consistent enough. When on the sim, my piro tic tocs are OK sometimes, but other times end up with the heli crashing, or flying into an odd direction, sometimes even toward ME! I'd be insane to take that to the real deal. The result would be inevitable, and dangerous.

If I only took note of my best sim performance, I could easily fool myself into believing I'm ready. But I'm disciplined enough to know better. The key is being your own critic. You get the discipline you give.

That reset button should be pressed with full knowledge of what it means...
it started falling towards to the ground as he had not learnt prop up the dropping wing method
He hadn't learned nose in. Plain and simple. Easily rectified with a lot of sim practice. But it takes time and discipline.

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01-20-2015 08:39 PM  3 years agoPost 22
Cobra 46

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Cambridge il usa

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Matt, Aaron, jason ,
I agree
And it's not the money to repair it ,, it's the time

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01-20-2015 09:03 PM  3 years agoPost 23
DemetriusUSN

rrVeteran

Virginia Beach, Va USA

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I see it as a learning experience. If you crash,which I have many times,you should learn from it and not do that anymore or at least try not to do that anymore. I'm afraid to crash,which means to I'm stuck flying like I do,safe,and not willing to get out of my comfort zone. i know i have to to get better,it just sucks crashing.

Minicopter Diabolo 800, Minicopter Triabolo 700, Minicopter Diabolo 700, Minicopter Diabolo 600, Minicopter Diabolo 550, Goblin 770

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01-20-2015 09:07 PM  3 years agoPost 24
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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Why is crashing such a "badge of honor"?
It's not the crashing. It is the risking everything, failing, picking up the pieces, rebuilding and going again. Over, and over, and over.
That is what makes us pilots.

Without this process, there would be no veteran pilots. Everyone will crash......if they fly. Wannabees give it a shot, fail, whine, and throw in the towel.

Wayne

I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman

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01-20-2015 09:07 PM  3 years agoPost 25
Aaron29

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USA

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Most hang ups are when some fundamental element needs to be learned.

Everyone picks up guitar and wants to learn a van Halen song without realizing that old Eddie probably spent a lot of time learning scales.

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01-20-2015 09:10 PM  3 years agoPost 26
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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Everyone picks up guitar and wants to learn a van Halen song without realizing that old Eddie probably spent a lot of time learning scales.
Exactly.

Wayne

I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman

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01-20-2015 10:54 PM  3 years agoPost 27
gologo

rrKey Veteran

Sedalia, Mo USA

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As mentioned by lot of guys above very well, crashing sure is NO badge of
honor. Like Aaron mentioned, you go directly from pilot to mechanic. It is
nothing but a friggen setback, and makes you rethink your confidence in maneuvers that you were feeling pretty good about!

I smeared my Logo across the muddy ground last night, into about 5 major
pieces, during a botched inverted auto. I guarantee I felt NO honor from
doing it.

And isn't it one of the golden rules of heli flying/crashing= heli is flying absolutely beautifully, smooth as silk, Always feels just 'perfect'
right before the crash?????

Tyfast27, RIGHT there with ya!! Sorry for your crash man.

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01-21-2015 12:27 AM  3 years agoPost 28
Retired2011

rrElite Veteran

Lee's Summit, MO

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And isn't it one of the golden rules of heli flying/crashing= heli is flying absolutely beautifully, smooth as silk, Always feels just 'perfect'
right before the crash?????
I think that applies to most things in life...sh!t happens.

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01-21-2015 05:07 AM  3 years agoPost 29
HeliRyan

rrApprentice

Colusa ca

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Crashing just lets you know what NOT to do next time

I don't crash, I land at full speed!

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01-21-2015 05:13 AM  3 years agoPost 30
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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That is the trouble with the sim, you don't learn discipline, only stick moves, if it gets away from you on the sim you crash and re set, admittedly I am going back when sims first appeared as a learning tool, and understand they have improved considerably
For me, I have to disagree with you Aaron...

Use an RF SIM....using the TX I fly with...this SIM is very good, IMO...

Learned how to...not...make the wrong stick moves when there's a panic moment...have logged over 30K SIM crashes......was laid up with an injury...and nothing else to do.

But, I learned my orientations...and as much 3D as I'm at, this point in time.

Was worried that the SIM wouldn't translate to R/T.....but it did...and that was the best $200 I've spent(the RF SIM).

FWIW

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01-21-2015 05:17 AM  3 years agoPost 31
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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I know my difficiencies...use the SIM to work on them...

Then go fly.....

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01-21-2015 05:31 AM  3 years agoPost 32
Aaron29

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USA

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Uh. Your qoute is MattJen's.

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01-21-2015 05:32 AM  3 years agoPost 33
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Good...we're all in agreement....

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01-21-2015 11:10 AM  3 years agoPost 34
rpat

rrElite Veteran

Weirton, W. Va.

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I use the sim. for the purpose of putting the heli in unusual attitudes and try to keep the heli from crashing. Getting out of what you put the heli into is a great way to learn how to get out of panic attitudes.

trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2

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01-21-2015 02:32 PM  3 years agoPost 35
JasonJ

rrKey Veteran

North Idaho

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HeliRyan

Senior Heliman

Colusa ca

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Crashing just lets you know what NOT to do next time
But does it really? Is a person so fully aware of what they are doing every second that they can say for sure what wrong input caused what? I know we think we know what happened but memory of traumatic events are immediately colored by past experience and ideas of what should happen rather than purely what happened. Mix that with the three different things the onlookers said happen and all of a sudden you aren't sure what happened. The second guessing kicks in at that point. Suddenly there is no teachable moment.

On the sim you crash. You aren't sure why but whatever because you just try it again and again until success. Also, as far as sim use goes, every sim flight should be treated like a real flight. If something goes wrong you try to recover it. It isn't crashed until it's crashed. Hitting the reset without trying to save the aircraft is teaching you to crash, not how to save the aircraft. That's really the point of the sim. Yeah you use it to learn spiffy stuff but the real purpose of a simulator is to teach you how to have a flight that ends in a landing, not a debris field. I may not be a 3d master but I am a master at saving a helicopter that gets all caterwampus from death. I can thank the sim for that. It allows me to give something a go in real life and know I am better armed to save the helicopter. If all you are doing is learning sweet smack 3d but not how to save the helicopter you are only doing half the work.

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01-21-2015 04:11 PM  3 years agoPost 36
Steve Graham

rrApprentice

Denver, CO

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Crashing doesn't make you smarter, or better or a veteran pilot least of all. If you feel like it does and are happy about it by all means it's your heli, money and time.

Applying the "If you're not crashing, you're not learning" mantra might make you feel better at the moment of impact but it's a platitude pure and simple. If full scale aviation heeded this misguided advice there truly would be no veteran pilots

I use the sim too as a training tool whose goal is skill set advancement. Like any tool it is neither perfect or without limitations. Still it has immeasurably helped myself and many others reach competencies quicker than we ever could have IRL. Much respect to those who went before and had to find ways to advance using just their models. These people had to adopt measured and rational training methods from full scale to have any hope of ever achieving high skill levels. That is unless they simply had unlimited funds and time available to rebuild.

Once a move is mastered in the sim there are very specific techniques you can use to take it to IRL.

About the only reason any pro ever crashes besides mechanical failure is that they are expected to impress the NASCAR crowd by throwing the model at the ground as hard as they can and repeatedly miss. There is no one alive who can fly this way and not occasionally crater one in. For the rest of us there is a thing called margins of error we can build into our flying if not crashing is a goal.

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01-21-2015 04:51 PM  3 years agoPost 37
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Also, as far as sim use goes, every sim flight should be treated like a real flight. If something goes wrong you try to recover it. It isn't crashed until it's crashed. Hitting the reset without trying to save the aircraft is teaching you to crash,
+1 and -1...

+1. Hitting reset without a recovery attempt is teaching you to resign and watch in horror as the heli crashes at the field.

-1. HOWEVER, I sort of have to -1 this idea, too, but only for omitting one important detail:

You also need to learn how to hit throttle hold and dump the heli in the event you've lost it and it's going in an unsafe direction.

I've seen some very unsafe situations develop because someone is madly attempting to save a model at the expense of everyone's safety at the field. These are just models and you don't have to save the aircraft at the expense of safety. I can't tell you how many times I wish some planker had just put nose down elevator instead of flying out of control toward people or cars.

***You have to learn when it's necessary to hit TH and miss the expensive and fleshy stuff.***

Learn to sacrifice a model for safety. THAT is the mark of a good pilot, not a beautiful save that flew through the pilot station!

But, you can't learn that unless you fly it all the way to the crash on the sim. Hitting sim reset the instant the heli isn't doing what you want it to do is a terrible habit.

Additionally, you should hit TH before impact on EVERY crash. It has the added benefit of reducing crash damage. It's a great habit to learn and the sim is the ONLY teacher (Can't go practice crashes IRL.)

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01-21-2015 04:55 PM  3 years agoPost 38
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Steve.

+1 ALL.

But I'll specifically add to your margin of error bit.

We typically have margin of error. Pros don't. But oh how the model companies, distributors, and LHS's would LOVE if we all flew like the pros and crashed at their rates. A fool and his money...

I have a great deal of respect for how the pros fly. But face it, helis are marketed this way for a reason:

Keep crashing them, customers. And open that wallet!

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01-21-2015 05:37 PM  3 years agoPost 39
bkervaski

rrElite Veteran

Birmingham, AL, USA

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Why is crashing such a "badge of honor"?
I don't think it's necessarily a "badge of honor" but just the way we choose to deal with the inevitable by flying the way we do.

Much better to be congratulated and get some high fives than to be reminded how much money, time and effort that's going to cost me.

It sucks to crash and we know that so we "bro it up" a bit with a few "Awesome!"'s in there to take some of the sting off.

Team Synergy Factory Specialist / Scorpion / Thunder Power / Byron's Fuels

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01-21-2015 05:38 PM  3 years agoPost 40
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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You know what they say:

"I hate to see a crash. But I also hate to miss one."

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Why is crashing such a "badge of honor" for some people
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