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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Reciver switch
01-20-2015 03:54 AM  3 years agoPost 21
Cobra 46

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Cambridge il usa

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That's why I asked and I don't want an accidental spool up .
I will rethink it all And see what this kosmik 160 is all about
Thanks for your help Aaron

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01-20-2015 03:56 AM  3 years agoPost 22
Aaron29

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USA

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My ritual. Transmitter powered on. Model checked as Logo 600 (even with model match, the habit is good). Transmitter placed in hold. Battery plugged in. Check for ESC happy tone. Check for two satellite lights. Check for vbar initialization twitch. All good? Carry to flight line. Set down. Walk away. Remove throttle hold. Move stick to center. Check wind. Check traffic. Set ID 1.

Only upon setting ID1 does my heli spin up. The thing won't even spool up in normal mode. I use it as another failsafe.

This has a few advanteages. Another failsafe. But also, I've never once accidentally flipped it in normal mode because it's foolproof. If it's flying, it's in ID1.

IMO with ESC soft start, having a normal curve is so NITRO. Pointless on an electric, my opine, of course. But I paid for soft start, why not use it for my advantage? So on my Logo, Normal is another throttle hold, essentially. I suppose I could just leave it in ID1 with hold when I walk out, but as I have it now I'm two switch flips away from spool up, and this makes me more confident.

I once was screwing around with an ESC (which one should not do) while my heli was on the bench, and found that the tiniest amount of throttle was EXTREMELY high torque. It happens so fast. I lucked out but my word these things will bite you in an instant. I've held onto a Nitro 90 doing a hot start and while that's scary, it's manageable. I'd rather do that than tangle with a 600 size heli with a nutty ESC. Scared the heck out of me and hurt good. No thanks.

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01-20-2015 04:46 AM  3 years agoPost 23
Cobra 46

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Cambridge il usa

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Ouch. !!! Good advice. Thanks

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01-20-2015 05:21 AM  3 years agoPost 24
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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I have a bec on my 570 and it has two power supplys 12 receiver and woman to fly bar less controller
That is SOME installation! A woman to fly bar less controller. Care to post a pic or two on the Hot Girls Thread?

Seriously, though. Each servo may have 20 gauge wires, that is usually sufficient for the needs of an individual servo, even for momentary peak currents.

The problem lies in having four (maybe 5 if a nitro heli) of those servos, a processor-based flybarless controller, and a processor-based receiver. The FBL controller and receiver most likely don't tolerate voltage drops below about 3.5 VDC, even very short, momentary spikes. The receivers and FBL controllers just have next to NO holdup capability to ride through low voltage happenings in your power system.

When that low voltage threshold is crossed, even for very short periods of time, as soon as the power level rises back to "normal" values, the damage has been done as the FBL controller and/or receiver go through their power-up reset sequence. This is NOT good when it happens in flight.

Many people believe that only Spektrum equipment can fall prey to the "brownout", when in reality, nearly ALL current receivers and FBL controllers on the market fare no better when it comes to momentary low voltage glitches.

-----

Back to the "trusty" JR and/or Futaba Heavy Duty switch. Again, only 20 gauge wires (that has to carry the momentary current loads of ALL servos in the system). Assume the three cyclic servos all see an enormous, but momentary flight load, and each needs 5 amps at or very near the same time. Your switch harness, plug, and switch need to be able to source 15 amps of current during that short period. IR drops in the wire, coupled with some dirty switch contacts, good-bye helicopter, as the RX and/or FBL system reset in flight.

-----

A while back I was experimenting in my basement with an Align 3GX FBL controller, a single Spektrum satellite receiver, and had three HiTec 5245 servos plugged in (taken out of a Trex 500). My power source at the time was a 4-cell, 1800 mah NiCad pack, with a heavy duty JR switch harness in-line. As I was experimenting, moving the TX sticks around, the FBL controller and RX would reset. Weird, I thought. I measured the battery voltage, loaded, and unloaded, it seemed fine. The servos themselves were simply sitting on a table, nothing connected to the output arms, so there was little, if any load.

After coming to the conclusion that the FBL controller and RX were OK, and that the battery itself was OK, I simply removed the switch harness and plugged the battery directly into the FBL controller. Instantly, all the unexplained behavior ceased, and the FBL controller and RX began to behave as expected.

Soon after that experience, a fellow RR member posted that his 3GX system was acting in a similar manner, and he also noted that he had an inline switch. Upon removing the switch, his problems, too, vanished.

-----

The key to your operation, as it is with ALL installations, is to ensure that your power source is adequate (able to maintain a steady voltage of about 6 volts, under all load conditions it will see). Whether you use a separate battery pack/regulator for your flight pack in addition to the main motor battery, or if you use a single motor battery coupled to the BEC inside an ESC, or to an external regulator, the power source to your flight controls must be capable of handling the necessary current and maintaining adequate voltage.

-----

As for having only your ESC powered and carrying that heli around, and sometime later firing up your RX and other on-board stuff, that is not a safe proposition. The simplest and most reliable method is to set your throttle hold setting to insure that the motor cannot start as long as TH is engaged.

Engage Throttle Hold. Plug in, set the heli down, then turn off TH and go fly. When you land, BEFORE you pick up the heli or kneel down to unplug the battery, engage throttle hold yet again. Your fingers, arms, and legs, as well as other body parts, will thank you.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-20-2015 05:25 AM  3 years agoPost 25
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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20 gauge wires
Hard to properly crimp 20 G and then fit its insulation into a connector housing that we have to use.

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01-20-2015 05:27 AM  3 years agoPost 26
EEngineer

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TX

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don't tolerate voltage drops below about 3.5 VDC, even very short, momentary spikes.
Causes a "computer re-boot" when voltage comes back

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01-20-2015 05:28 AM  3 years agoPost 27
Aaron29

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USA

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I'm still surprised we see servo leads so small given their application. Servos aren't what they used to be. BLS high spec servos are way bigger amp hogs than your old S9002.

The BEC on the Kontronik uses two standard (HD) JR leads, but since there's two, it's adequate. Says it's good for 15A but I'd not like to see what they'd do if that were held for very long. That said, spec'ed for 15A and pulling that consistently are different matters. I doubt I pull more then 3A average based on mah reinserted into my rx battery models.

I wouldn't trust just using one HD 20g lead. Not on a modern application. My SDX gets away with 4x 9252's and a 701/9251 powered by a 4.8 nicad on just one lead. But it's a 50 using low spec servos.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Reciver switch
01-20-2015 05:28 AM  3 years ago •• Post 28 ••
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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standard servo connector is good for only up to about 5 amps
Only with gold-plated contacts....tin plated are only good for 4 A

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01-20-2015 05:34 AM  3 years agoPost 29
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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We'll soon need triple-leads.....

These .1" center connectors are from the 60's....

They never imagined the eventual current draw.

Painted into the proverbial corner...

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01-20-2015 05:37 AM  3 years agoPost 30
Aaron29

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USA

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Yeah. The Smartfly used on Giant Scale 3D is an attempt to allow higher currents. I do like the idea of servos wired directly to a power bus, But it's still is patching a substandard system.

Eventually there will be receivers and servos with thicker gage wiring and larger connectors.

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01-20-2015 05:45 AM  3 years agoPost 31
EEngineer

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TX

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The plankers are doing this...there's a separate high current "bus" unit....which bypasses the RX....but uses the standard connector.....

A bandaid...but it works for now

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01-20-2015 12:06 PM  3 years agoPost 32
Cobra 46

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Cambridge il usa

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I guess The reason I asked the question is because of winter flying , I would like to get the Heli ready in the warm house then walk out and fly.
But I understand the problems involved in what I wanted to do .
By the time I do all the plugging in and install canopy my hands are starting to get cold ( ya I'm a sis ) the best option sounds like just plug it in outside but make sure I'm in a warmer climate!!

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01-20-2015 01:22 PM  3 years agoPost 33
Retired2011

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Lee's Summit, MO

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I set my helis up so that main pack can be plugged in with the canopy on.

Turn on or plug in RX power put the canopy on in the warm...
carry the heli to the pad, plug in the main pack and fly.

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01-20-2015 05:12 PM  3 years agoPost 34
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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I'm still surprised we see servo leads so small given their application. Servos aren't what they used to be.
Had a small fire just last night from this issue.
I'm guessing there was a small nick in the insulation.
I pulled the pin flag from the switch and the wiring harness lit up like a welding lead in side the wire loom.

I replaced all the jumpers from the regulator to the FBL unit with slightly heavier RJX jumpers.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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01-20-2015 05:20 PM  3 years agoPost 35
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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I use a voltage regulator that the servos plug into individually for power.
One jumper from each channel from the FBL to the regulator and then each servo is plugged into the regulator.
The regulator transfers the control signals to the servos while providing power.
There is a total of four jumpers from the regulator to the FBL with each of them providing power. Overkill since the only thing getting power is the computer and lights.lol...

The pin flag switch is a "fails closed" switch so if it fails,it does so in a manner that leaves the FBL unit and servos powered on.

I know a lot of the more expensive ESCs have all the features I like balled into one but I prefer the individual units because they are individually replaceable for a fraction of the cost.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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01-21-2015 10:44 PM  3 years agoPost 36
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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To back up a few posts....my heli flies inverted in normal mode pretty well unless I try a 100% negative climb out.
Normal mode is governed at 1650 RPM. Slow enough that I know it's not idle up.
But the throttle curve is 0-30-30-30-30 with 30% being the setting for 1650 RPM.
I can still spool up in normal and even hover inverted

I literally never use the word literally right.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Reciver switch
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