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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › If Nitro is done...
01-20-2015 03:25 AM  3 years agoPost 41
Aaron29

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USA

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That isn't going to be knocking any elecrics down for power.

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01-20-2015 03:55 AM  3 years agoPost 42
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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When I was flying nitros years ago CSM came out with a thing called a Carb Smart. I was flying a Raptor 50 with the OS Hyper 50 on 30% and getting 6 to 7 minutes carefully tuning it with the smoke and temp supposedly to keep the OS healthy ,,but still replaced bearings ,,the old story and not related. I read about the carb smart and read guys had problems installing the sensor on the head and it was fragile bla bla bla but I went a got it. Long old story short after installing the carb smart my power went up and my flight times were MUCH longer. Ten to eleven minutes easy!! The engine saw no ill affects and it was amazing to see at a hover the smoke would diminish and under heavy load it would smoke right up! I am not a nitro flyer anymore but I would think in this day of high tech there should be a fuel management system like the CSM but even better. I don't get it. This system read head temps which lag in real time temps,,a newer system could read exhaust temps which would be quicker.
Efficiency and more power with a closed loop system,,,but still these days the fuel metering of nitro's are still in the stone age!!

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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01-20-2015 04:19 AM  3 years agoPost 43
Aaron29

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USA

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Carburetors. So 1980's.

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01-20-2015 04:22 AM  3 years agoPost 44
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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Carburetors. So 1980's.
Yes sir!! VERY PRIMITIVE,,,,,,,,

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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01-20-2015 04:34 AM  3 years agoPost 45
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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Single port fuel injection started in 86
I think you meant so 70's
In the 60's some European sport models had mechanical fuel injection.

spending time, paying attention

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01-20-2015 04:41 AM  3 years agoPost 46
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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MY Point is there is no closed loop system in a nitro engine,,in this case fuel injection can be as dumb as a carb without any brain to see what is going on,,,like a YS for example with a very primitive fuel injection. I think you see what I mean.
It is absolutely numb to what the engine is actually doing.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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01-20-2015 04:58 AM  3 years agoPost 47
Aaron29

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USA

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Fuel injection didn't really take off and become mainstream until 1990ish...once FI matured past throttle body injection, meh stuff, and expensive stuff, it finally buried the lowly carburetor.

Now FI is so mature I dare you to try to find a carb on anything new but a mower or a model. Maybe on a bike.

My 72 Super Beetle had a carb. As did my '87 Hyundai Excel. And my 1982 Honda Prelude. Gotta few winners there, LOL. Bugs got FI in 1975 (how's that for advanced from the Germans?), Excels got them after my model, and Honda Preludes got them in 1990. I remember seeing my mother's Brand New 1991 Cadillac El Dorado. Port Fuel Injection, baby. LOL. We didn't even know what it meant then, but it sounded cool and it had power seats!

In any case, there were enough carbs in the 1980's to have one. I never chose a car based on it, but cheap kid cars didn't have it. LOL.

Soon we will be saying that the Flybar is so year 2000.

Might also be one day saying that Nitro is so 2000's. We'll see.

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01-20-2015 05:34 AM  3 years agoPost 48
banshee rider

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Phoenix AZ.

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Aarron29

That isn't going to be knocking any elecrics down for power
---------------------------------------------------------------

No the os gt 15 will not but there will be more improvements on them not to the same level as electrics
but there are a lot of us that are not interested in beating the
snot out of our heli's trying to imitate all the pro sponsored
pilots by doing the latest flipping pirouetting circuit 6 inches off the ground that looks like a hummingbird on meth

It will do mild to medium 3d for 15 minutes at a time
without having to bring a generator chargers or $ 600.00 worth of batteries to the field
and that's all myself and a lot of others want

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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01-20-2015 07:31 AM  3 years agoPost 49
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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I can already do that now with my X3 for 5 solid minutes. Yes, that's not 8 minutes and it's a smallish heli (6S, 360mm blades), but it's coming...and probably sooner rather than later...
That heli in Duncan bossions hands would barely do 3.5 minutes! Yet he can smack his nx7 for 8 minutes! It's not coming! There's no new battery tech that's going to be in our hands anytime soon.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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01-20-2015 12:06 PM  3 years agoPost 50
jharkin

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Holliston, MA - USA

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Single port fuel injection started in 86
I think you meant so 70's
In the 60's some European sport models had mechanical fuel injection.
More like, so 1950s. The C1 Corvette had mechanical fuel injection starting in '57. They were beat by a couple years by Mercedes, who had the first road car implementation in the '55 300SL.

Before that injection was used extensively in aviation during WWII, mostly by the Germans but there was at least one American engine with it. And before that it was tried experimentally in WWI even.

Coming back to the 80s. I believe the first EFI, electronic injection systems where developed in the 80s.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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01-20-2015 02:35 PM  3 years agoPost 51
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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Don't you think that nitros are horribly inefficient? You set the needles so when loaded it wont burn up but anything less than that it's chugging fuel back for no good reason. If you could get 3 to 5 minutes more run time per flight that would help the cost per flight ratio everyone seems to talk about.
Also conservative/safe needle settings don't produce max safe power either. It is an educated guess.
I still think a closed loop system even as crude as the Carb Smart would help some. A really well tuned 90 could with engine management could maybe keep up with a slobbering rich bigger nitro and use less fuel.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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01-20-2015 05:13 PM  3 years agoPost 52
HeimD

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the great southwest

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That heli in Duncan bossions hands would barely do 3.5 minutes!
You are highly incorrect. Not all that long ago ('90s), people said electric helis would never amount to much of anything much less perform extremely demanding maneuvers. Well...advances in motor, ESC and battery technology changed all that didn't it? Do you honestly think we are done with advances with those components? No way in hell.

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01-20-2015 05:57 PM  3 years agoPost 53
gwright

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Champaign Il

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A prius runs longer on a tank than a veyron too. Electrics don't have short flight times. Electrics with ballistic power setups have shorter flight times. I see 200 amp surges on 12S in some folks logs all the time (not mine, I get 12 to 15 minute flights on electric setups,..and doing smooth 3D). assuming the batteries hold 44.4V that's 8800 watts, which is almost 12hp (746 watts per horsepower if I remember correctly).Granted, it's a VERY short burst, but it's still 3 to 4 times what the glow engine will do.

select motor and gearing for equal performance and the time differences diminish and/or disappear.

Gary Wright

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01-20-2015 09:38 PM  3 years agoPost 54
Rob43

rrKey Veteran

Midland, MI USA

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The coolest part is you can enjoy similar flight time/performance to nitro if rotor speed is reduced, or much more ballistic performance all on the same machine when it's electric.

I too love my nitros, but I am afraid the window of opportunity to develop any sort of computer controlled electronic FI has passed us by. Now the demand isn't there. When it was, OS and YS should have been making it happen. Instead, they stuck with their old technology systems. Others didn't even have good carburetors.

Rob

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01-20-2015 09:45 PM  3 years agoPost 55
gwright

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Champaign Il

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OS has had it for about a decade and a half. but it didn't sell well in the states. A quick google found it at singahobby. Not sure what the price was in dollars,..that could have been the hurdle. I remember Quique was using one in 2001 when we were at camp jeep. It did seem to run well.

http://www.singahobby.com/?q=node/14164

Gary Wright

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01-20-2015 10:08 PM  3 years agoPost 56
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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Wow the engine in that link cost $1,746.00
are they nuts

OH well they had there chance back in 2006 too bad they didn't take it.

spending time, paying attention

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01-21-2015 12:12 AM  3 years agoPost 57
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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I'm not sure that's in US Dollar.

Or even Canadian.

If it is, yeah there's little wonder why that didn't take off.

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01-21-2015 01:05 AM  3 years agoPost 58
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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The coolest part is you can enjoy similar flight time/performance to nitro if rotor speed is reduced,
Yeah...and I can slowly scratch my fingernails down the full length of a blackboard too. LOL

Team POP Secret

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01-21-2015 02:02 AM  3 years agoPost 59
jharkin

rrApprentice

Holliston, MA - USA

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YS has aslo had EFI for quite a while. They even have direct injection EFI. And even direct injected EFI with CDI. These are all marketed at the F3A pattern crowd.

DZ175CDI

The interesting thing about all these claims of low HS electrics running nitro flight times... No matter how many tricks you pull off, LiPos still only have a fraction of the energy density by weight of methanol or gasoline:

LiPo: 0.3 - 0.8 MJ/Kg
Methanol: 20 MJ/Kg
gasoline: 44 MJ/Kg

Its still a lot easier to get long flight times on wet power by just adding a larger tank. I'd like to see an electric that can match the 20-30 minute flight times of a 700 gasser

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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01-21-2015 03:57 AM  3 years agoPost 60
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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I'd like to see an electric that can match the 20-30 minute flight times of a 700 gasser
before the E guys bust that 1.

I can run at the same power level as gas by lowering my head speed
and using 2 6s5000 in parallel
yawn

spending time, paying attention

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