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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Align 3GX rudder bounce back
01-11-2015 11:28 PM  3 years agoPost 1
cpe190

rrNovice

UTAH

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Hey,

Has anyone come up with a logical solution the the continual issue with the rudder bounce back. Only happens as hard right rudder is given. I have read every single forum and post out there. I have done the supposed update that Align recommends. Seems better but not perfect. I have even swapped out the 3GX unit with another new one. Same thing!! So I am thinking it is a linkage problem? I have even tried moving the ball links to the outer holes. No fix. I have changed the anti torque settings and seems better, but not perfect. Left rudder is perfect, right is a bit bouncy?

Thanks for the feedback....anyone

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01-11-2015 11:46 PM  3 years agoPost 2
mr dan

rrVeteran

Stockton Calif

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Hey,
Has anyone come up with a logical solution the the continual issue with the rudder bounce back. Only happens as hard right rudder is given. I have read every single forum and post out there. I have done the supposed update that Align recommends. Seems better but not perfect. I have even swapped out the 3GX unit with another new one. Same thing!! So I am thinking it is a linkage problem? I have even tried moving the ball links to the outer holes. No fix. I have changed the anti torque settings and seems better, but not perfect. Left rudder is perfect, right is a bit bouncy?
Thanks for the feedback....anyone
Just a suggestion:
Take 3GX unit and place on firm solid surface, take a heavy item, (a 10lb sledge hammer will do)
Smash the 3GX into unusable pieces.
Go to helidirect and purchase a Spartan Vortex VX1e unit or a VX1n or VX1 and throw your troubles away!

"R.I.P Roman" Citizen 0094 in the Nation

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01-12-2015 12:55 AM  3 years agoPost 3
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Version 5.0 SW.

Hover the heli with the gyro in RATE mode. Adjust rudder linkage until the heli will hover without yawing left, or right.

Re-set the travel limits as you have changed the linkage length some.

Go back to Heading hold mode. You should be able to run much higher gains than you had before.

Also, as with any heading hold gyro, choose the distance between servo center and the center of the ball such that for full left/right rudder command, the servo moves AT least +/- 45 degrees from neutral.

-----

Also, use the PC software to make sure the rudder delay is at ZERO as it loves to default to 30. If necessary, with the software up and running in your PC, watch as you adjust the value to zero (making sure you keep the small/large setting correct). Once at zero, just let the SW sit there and time out on its own, instead of advancing by pushing the 3GX button.

You can also experiment with the Heading Lock gain, if needed, turning it down some.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-12-2015 04:48 AM  3 years agoPost 4
cpe190

rrNovice

UTAH

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I'm running futaba. What should my rate mode be set at?

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01-12-2015 06:11 AM  3 years agoPost 5
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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Hover the heli with the gyro in RATE mode.

spending time, paying attention

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01-12-2015 07:26 AM  3 years agoPost 6
cpe190

rrNovice

UTAH

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Thanks for the help guys. I set my Rate/Normal mode at 50% gain and put the Heli into a hover. Even though I had the trim on the rudder set at center. It did want to drift badly to the right. So I adjusted the control rod linkage (shortened) until I got a stable, "no drift" tail hold in rate/normal mode. I then re-set my limits and put the Heli in heading hold (AVCS) 40% gain and it made a huge difference. I would say...not perfect, but really quite acceptable. I only get a very slight amount of bounce back when hard right rudder is given. I do find it quite annoying that I feel like in some ways it had to be "jerry rigged" to make it work well. Mainly because, when the rudder is in the "mid Stick" my blades are obviously not centered. I don't really get it, but it seem to work much better. I will not be messing with it anymore, and it is likely I will at one point be switching back to Futaba 750CGY. I really hope this helps all of those people still having issues. WOW! what a headache it was just getting to this point.

All in all, I would say the 3GX system is okay, but it seems to have a fair amount to do with some size's of Helis than others. This issue involved a T-Rex 550dfc, I also have a T-rex 700dfc that it works just fine, and had no issues the first time I flew it.

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01-12-2015 01:10 PM  3 years agoPost 7
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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What you ended up doing is NOT "jerry rigging", but trimming the rudder so that with the servo at neutral, the tail doesn't want to turn left or right on its own.

You wouldn't accept a gross out of trim condition for the elevator or aileron cyclic axes, why is it OK to fly with a tail rotor that is nowhere close to being properly trimmed?

Prior to FBL becoming the rage, there was a great debate among heli pilots about how to set up heading hold gyros -- some argued that performing that last step of trimming the rudder for no yaw in rate mode was unnecessary, others arguing that it was.

In nearly every helicopter kit produced these days, if you simply center the pitch slider in its travel on the tail shaft, you end up with NO pitch at all in the tail rotor blades. NO heli will hover in rate mode, without yawing left/right, with zero pitch in the tail rotor. WHY kits are produced this way today is a mystery.

A common setup step for those of us who flew helis prior to the introduction of gyros, and even after the advent of rate mode gyros, was to adjust the tail rotor so that you COULD hover without the nose turning left or right. We started out with no pitch in the tail rotor, and at hover, with about six degrees of pitch, as I recall.

At the end of the day, no matter WHAT gyro you use, at a hover, to keep the nose of the helicopter stationary, you WILL have something other than ZERO degrees of tail rotor pitch, and the pitch slider will NOT be centered.

It appears that the tweaks made to the 3GX software beginning with V4.0 SW and continuing into V5.0, were made to optimize tail rotor behavior with a heli that has been properly trimmed to begin with.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-12-2015 03:31 PM  3 years agoPost 8
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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The Real Info!!
A common setup step for those of us who flew helis prior to the introduction of gyros, and even after the advent of rate mode gyros, was to adjust the tail rotor so that you COULD hover without the nose turning left or right. We started out with no pitch in the tail rotor, and at hover, with about six degrees of pitch, as I recall.
At the end of the day, no matter WHAT gyro you use, at a hover, to keep the nose of the helicopter stationary, you WILL have something other than ZERO degrees of tail rotor pitch, and the pitch slider will NOT be centered.
Couldn't have said it better myself Dave...

You are completely right about todays kits too....in rate most will go into an nice slow piro!!!!

It just makes sense to set in rate mode!!! Set it and forget it in HH!!!

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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01-13-2015 05:38 AM  3 years agoPost 9
cpe190

rrNovice

UTAH

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Thanks you guys. It is nice to know where to turn when some of us struggle a bit. As always! a very big help.

One last thing Dave: I am running version 3.1 mainly because of the supposed horror stories of V4.0 and V5.0. Are you saying that things will actually perform a bit better if I change to V5.0 now that I have the rudder set up properly?

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01-13-2015 12:44 PM  3 years agoPost 10
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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With the rudder set up as described, V5.0 is much better than 3.1. The heli feels more lively. You MAY need to turn down the Aileron and Elevator gain pots on top of the unit. You will most likely be able to run higher rudder gains, as well.

As for horror stories, V4.0 did not behave well for many with respect to the rudder gyro behavior. Some had success and it may have had something to do with needing to turn the high RPMs of the 450L Dominator.

Those having trouble with V5.0 haven't yet learned that the tail MUST be set for a no-yaw hover in rate mode.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-25-2015 12:05 PM  3 years agoPost 11
Mitchilito

rrVeteran

Morehead City, NC USA

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You are the MAN Dkshema. I'm no beginner (been flying helis since 1974) but I always learn something from your posts. Thanks!

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