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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › FAA Helicopter Flying Handbook
01-06-2015 07:10 AM  5 years ago
rexxigpilot

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Then you'd be wrong.

By your thinking, the venturi tube of a carburetor doesn't actually work either.

The venturi effect is a combination of Bernoulli's principle and the continuity equation.
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01-06-2015 07:26 AM  5 years ago
EEngineer

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TX

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Then you'd be wrong.
Nope....you haven't explained why I can fly inverted with a plank...and it ain't due to Bernoulli's principal...

On the deck....without a wreck....way below mach spec

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01-06-2015 01:46 PM  5 years ago
1helimech

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NW Fla....

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EE,
Look into the flat plate effect to get your answer ...I'm not going to spoon feed you but if you really want to know try that...
I dream of a better world, A world where a chicken's crossing a road IS NOT questioned
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01-06-2015 02:18 PM  5 years ago
KissMyBlades

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Manchester, CT

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Bernoulli's equation applies to fluid mechanics and not air...
Bernouilli's equation doesn't explain how a symmetrical airfoil develops lift....nor does it explain how a fixed wing aircraft(symmetical airfoil or not) develops lift when flying inverted.

First air, although it's not a liquid, is still a "fluid" and acts like one as long as it's not supersonic. An airfoil comes to a point at the aft edge and a truly symmetrical rounded forward edge - at least for this explanation.

To imagine it correctly, imagine your blade inside a rectangular box (theoretical atmosphere) and is exactly dead center. As you add angle of attack positive or negative, the forward edge moves toward the top or bottom creating a smaller and smaller space between the blade and the box top/bottom. This smaller space makes fluid (AIR) travel faster and faster through this and creates lift from the inequality of pressure (if you're increasing angle of attack there's a low pressure above the blade, higher pressure below and vice versa).

Air wants to go from where it is (too much of it, aka the high pressure below) to where it aint (less of it, aka low pressure above) creating the lift. The exact same principle applies when you take the blade from flat pitch to negative pitch.
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01-06-2015 02:43 PM  5 years ago
drdot

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So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw..

Tell me again...How many angelsnmay dance on the head of a pin...?...

John.
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01-06-2015 10:37 PM  5 years ago
rexxigpilot

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What EE is trying to promote is that lift is caused by the AOA, whereby the impacting molecules of air have a component of the airflow vector directed upward. Newtonian physics, particularly his laws of motion, show that the impact by air on the wing's bottom will have a force upwards to provide lift. All this is true. However, it does not negate Bernoulli's equation and lift provided by higher velocity airflow over the top of the wing or conversely, a slower airflow beneath the wing. Both produce relatively higher pressure beneath the wing and lower pressure on top. This is why an airplane with asymmetrical airfoil wing can fly upside down. What EE needs to consider is why an asymmetrical airfoil produces more lift than a symmetrical one.
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01-07-2015 01:29 AM  5 years ago
EEngineer

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TX

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What EE needs to consider is why an asymmetrical airfoil produces more lift than a symmetrical one.
Never said that an asymmetrical airfoil didn't create ANY lift...

Just said that the majority of lift wasn't due to the Bernoulli effect....but instead from that of the AoA.....
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01-07-2015 01:53 AM  5 years ago
Retired2011

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Lee's Summit, MO

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Tell me again...How many angelsnmay dance on the head of a pin...?...
That's the most thought inspiring post of this thread...to me!
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01-07-2015 01:56 AM  5 years ago
denwag

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Norman, Indiana

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Hey at least it keeps the thread active. More people made aware of this great resource.

Regards
denwag
IRCHA 4816 AMA 530319 www.berryridgegraphics.com
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01-07-2015 02:10 AM  5 years ago
KissMyBlades

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Manchester, CT

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But the change in AOA is directly relating to Bernoulli's principle. As you increase the AOA (positive or negative), you increase the speed of the air therefore decreasing the pressure even more above the airfoil creating more lift (until it stalls).
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01-07-2015 02:13 AM  5 years ago
EEngineer

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TX

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Nope...not buying it....
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01-07-2015 02:38 AM  5 years ago
KissMyBlades

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Manchester, CT

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EE, would you buy that it flies by PFM (pure freakin magic)?
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01-07-2015 03:11 AM  5 years ago
jgunpilot

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Pollock, LA

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Bernoulli was a liar, a cheat, a fraud, a fake, a phony, and a pretender. Coanda, on the other hand, was the true father of lift.

Feel free to discuss this among yourselves...
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01-07-2015 03:32 AM  5 years ago
rexxigpilot

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The higher level concepts of aerodynamics are mostly beyond the understanding of the majority of those on a nontechnical/non-scientific internet forum. Euler equations and Napier-Stokes equations are equations used in aerodynamic calculations for airflow/airspeed in excess of about 0.3 Mach, where compressibility (density) and viscosity have significant affect on lift and drag. Shock waves also come into play when transonic and higher flight speeds are considered. An understanding of complex math including vectors/complex numbers and differential equations is needed to get a grasp on this. For subsonic flight the understanding of Bernoulli's equation and streamlines are sufficient. An understanding of various flow regimes such as laminar, transitional/partially turbulent and wholly turbulent will aid in understanding the boundary layer.

Anyone glaze over yet?

Unless you have a good understanding of math and science, some of the information covered in the FAA Handbook may be Greek to you.
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01-07-2015 03:36 AM  5 years ago
rexxigpilot

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Bernoulli was a liar, a cheat, a fraud, a fake, a phony, and a pretender.
Perhaps you are thinking of Marconi?
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01-07-2015 03:41 AM  5 years ago
Santiago P

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Dayton

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Coanda, on the other hand, was the true father of lift.
Dude!

That is one funny statement if I ever heard one. I don't have time to count the ways that is simply hilarious. One up better than "the hot gasses out of my rear are the MOTHER of lift".
But I mean you WIN!

Coanda, the father of...
effing funny

S
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01-07-2015 04:10 AM  5 years ago
teamdavey2001

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Sunnyvale, California, USA

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I almost blew my drink out of my nose when I read that!
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01-07-2015 04:23 AM  5 years ago
EEngineer

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TX

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Anyone glaze over yet?
No, but what did that have to do with the price of axle grease vs. Ethiopia?.....
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01-07-2015 04:26 AM  5 years ago
EEngineer

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TX

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PFM (pure freakin magic)
No, but not buying your "book"...symmetrical airfoils...
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01-07-2015 04:29 AM  5 years ago
rexxigpilot

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No, but what did that have to do with the price of axle grease vs. Ethiopia?.....
It means as a former baseball pitcher I favor the Magnus effect over the Coanda!
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