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HomeAircraftHelicopterHIROBOOther News  I'm not getting out... I'm starting over...
01-07-2015 07:27 PM  3 years agoPost 61
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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I guess it's up to us now to keep buying Hirobo.
No.

It's up to Hirobo. We've been keeping up our end of things with nothing in return since like 2008. It's not up to us. We didn't cause the brand to decay to its current state. Quite the contrary. We've kept it on life support with our loyalty.

A new lineup is desperately needed. The Eagle WC is a great start, but we need a new lineup across the board to reinvigorate the brand. The F3C crowd here in the US is tiny and is not going to be able to keep Hirobo up. So, a 450, a 600, and a 700 Electric FBL 3D model are desperately needed if Hirobo is going to retake ANY of the US market.

We also need to see airframes specifically designed for FBL and electric. *Specifically* designed. That means no more changing lower frames and a few parts from existing nitro birds. Let's be real. That just isn't going to compete. As painful as it may be to hear, Hirobo could learn a thing or two from JR a as to what it means to get with the times.

Ouch, yeah here it comes. Flame suit on. /hides behind OP

(Sorry. But it's tough love. I want Hirobo to succeed, but it's going to take more than what we've got at this point for them to get their foot in the US market.)

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01-07-2015 08:11 PM  3 years agoPost 62
dschertz

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Jackson, MI

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Isn't the Embla a 450?

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01-07-2015 08:14 PM  3 years agoPost 63
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Yes.

But...you missed my point.

Face it. Hirobo's "unique" approach is failing here in the US. They need a makeover. I'm hoping Jeff is the guy to bring that. An Embla 450 isn't going to get them there.

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01-07-2015 08:18 PM  3 years agoPost 64
dschertz

rrApprentice

Jackson, MI

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What can any other brand do that a Hirobo model can't with their current line up?

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01-07-2015 08:21 PM  3 years agoPost 65
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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We can argue this all day long. Do you want the brand to re-enter the US market or not?

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01-07-2015 08:27 PM  3 years agoPost 66
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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I can't just nod and agree with you and go about thinking everything's hunky dory.

Hirobo, to succeed in the US market, HAS to modernize.

I for one think they can do it. When they set out to so something, it turns out great. The SDX and D3 were phenomenal. Unfortunately, the timing was just unlucky. They came out right at the start of the FBL / Electric revolution, so were quickly irrelevant despite being the best at their release.

I hear you with the Hirobo love. They ooze quality. A modern design would captivate. But the current line up will never sell outside us Hirobo loyalists. No way enough non-loyalists will take a pass on current modern offerings from other brands to go with Hirobo FBL/EP conversions from models circa 2008. At least not in sufficient quantities to sustain Hirobo in America. To think otherwise is delusional. Something needs to change.

Face it, with just us loyalists, we weren't enough to sustain the brand's US presence and MRC bit the dust. And if nothing changes, then nothing changes with respect to Hirobo's US viability.

Again, this is about what it takes for Hirobo to succeed. Not staying on life support due to us few loyalists.

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01-07-2015 08:29 PM  3 years agoPost 67
dschertz

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Jackson, MI

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If the answer to my question is nothing, that should say why they're not out making a bunch of new models. I'm looking for an honest answer, not just "the latest and greatest" debate. Honestly models made 10 years ago work for me. I just don't see why people need them to change to sell. If they can do everything the other brands can, no need to change whether you or anyone else believes it. You yourself have brought up points about align not having anything new as of lately in this very topic.....

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01-07-2015 08:31 PM  3 years agoPost 68
Aaron29

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USA

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Your model of "everything is fine" will kill the brand. Sorry if that doesn't sound nice.

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01-07-2015 08:35 PM  3 years agoPost 69
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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no need to change whether you or anyone else believes it.
When you can't get parts for your 10 year old model because Hirobo profits fell and the Heli division folded for real, or Hirobo exited the US market, you'll wish they'd have modernized.

This isn't about them changing whimsical things for the latest/greatest crowd. It's about them recognizing that a REVOLUTION took place in RC helis with FBL and EP. They never acknowledged it properly with their warmed over conversions. They needed a drawing board.

I'm not saying they need to be cutting edge all the time. FBL EP models will likely be the mainstay for some time to come. An effort to modernize there with a ground-up engineered model will be worth the R&D, and should sustain them for a good while longer until the next big revolution.

I have faith in them. They can do it.

But they NEED to do it, is my point. Otherwise they'll go the way of Kalt, or Robbe, or Miniature Aircraft. Once great helis. But gone. Hirobo is no where close to being too big to fail.

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01-07-2015 11:55 PM  3 years agoPost 70
payne1967

rrElite Veteran

uk

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no model company is to big to fail

i agree with the fact for new future sales the model line up needs to change
there is nothing wrong with the old platforms but they are out of fashion
and that is what is leading the market place mixed into poor marketing this doesn't hold out good for a company to stay healthy and make a profit

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01-08-2015 12:16 AM  3 years agoPost 71
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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The reality is that the 10 year old basic, overweight airframes work sorta ok as E conversions but simply with not meet the demands of current day sport 3D pilots, esp those with a taste for more aggressive flying.

The SDX e conversion driveline when paired with any higher performance motor combo has a hard time keeping its driveline in place. I have seen it firsthand. It starts to shred the maingear if you get out there and beat on the model. Mind you this is taking into account the use of the dedicated and costly OEM conversion 740kV Scorpion which ties you to basically an 8S set up. It gets that much worse if you use Ruedi's conversion like I did and pair nothing more powerful than one of the current crop 600-700 class motors with the model (with hands tied I might add due to severe limitations of gear ratio for many common kv motors, especially smaller ones and if you want to run more than 8S to get remotely decent runtime at higher headspeeds and with aggressive flying). The all up weight of the model is close to 2 pounds more than current designs. My own SDX conversion with carbon boom, braces, and small 12 S 3300 packs still weighed right at nine pounds RTF. Too darn heavy, and you can feel it in flight.

The 700 class plastic Freya conversions that are done using Ruedi's parts yield a 12S model that weighs well over 12 (close to 13) pounds RTF. Once again the small diameter and thin maingear will strip if you load the model hard or run a stout power system, and you are tied to using the stock Hirobo pinion. There is NO native 700 class electric in the product line. The E3 EP is NOT a native electric. The core design is simply a converted SWM E3 glow model.

The D3 V2 is a lovely model and up to the task of current flying AND the current price is doable for some guys. The problem comes when you have the kind of crash that most guys have today when flying hard. Guys won't buy and fly models with parts with the price points where they are now. A conservative $500-700 parts price crash is a non-starter for most of the marketplace.

For years Hirobo has steadfastly stood by domestic parts and kit production to yield the absolute finest product even as costs to make things and the exchange rate made it basically impossible to compete. What they have failed to grasp is that the absolute finest quality is NOT necessary for a nice and well designed model that guys can afford to buy and more importantly crash. It's ok if they want to keep the premium quality and price point present in their F3C models, because they will literally sell only numbers in the few hundreds of them. If they want to sell models in the numbers required to actually earn a profit and regain a market presence, then it will be back to the drawing for a native electric 700 class 3D model in the 650-900$ price point and correspondingly affordable parts prices (that means the whole rotorhead can't cost over $500 and a mainshaft can't be pushing $40, $100 a piece main grips, etc, etc...) that does not exceed 11 pound AUW., a native 600 class electric with affordable parts and AUW not to exceed 7.5# or so, and a further simplification of the D3V2 and change in parts price point so that you are not effectively buying F3C model parts for a model that will assuredly hit the ground every so often. This is NOT about the legendary longevity of the models. This is about the absolute reality that PEOPLE CRASH and STUFF BREAKS and you have to be able to afford to fix it for a price less than half of what someone brings home every 2-4 weeks. What they CANNOT do is make expensive scale bodies for an indoor electric model and kid themselves into thinking that largely numbers of people will buy them and make it worse by getting into a ridiculous deal with Tamiya that compels them to commit to more of those same bodies than they could possibly sell in this or any other lifetime. You cannot continue to think that just because a core group of guys is happy with their stuff, then all must be ok. It's not OK. Hirobo's head has been stuck so far in the sand that they have all but suffocated. Hirobo Japan failed to make a factory presence at IRCHA in any recent years. They simply did not care. It was pretty much "screw the US market; they don't know anything". This past year I think I saw maybe two Hirobo models on the entire flight line at IRCHA, maybe. Perhaps there were twice or three times that many for a total of 8 or 9. I saw exactly none at any one of several major regional funflies that I attended this past season as well. By ANY legitimate measure of business success, Hirobo's utter failure to respond to the demands of the current market have all but killed the model brand. They are completely absent from any world 3D competition because they do not even make a model that is remotely competitive (don't even bother to show up with a nitro). If Dominik were to compete he would have to fly a SIROCCO D3 conversion. With Hashimoto long gone and now officially retired along with Graber and Lucchi (sp)now flying for SAB and with Quest and JR virtually owning the F3C market in Japan, you'll not see Hirobo anytime soon on any world F3C podium either.
I simply loved my Hirobo models, but I walked away from great sponsorship because the Hirobo had absolutely nothing to offer in terms of fresh and innovative model designs, nor any intent whatsoever to come out with the same anytime soon. As a business owner myself, I stood by for years and along with the likes of Terry Moore and watched with utter disbelief as Japan totally ignored every piece of sound advice about what was needed to try to recover market share and saw a once great brand all but disappear. Hardheadedness does not begin to describe what has reduced Hirobo to where they are today. They made this bed. I guess their model division head(s) must think it pretty darn comfy. The rest of the world has pretty much pitched the mattress out the back door. Things could still be done to improve matters, but if you think a warmed over E3 with a stretched boom is going to do it, then by all means keep peeing on each other's legs and saying it's rain.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-08-2015 03:21 AM  3 years agoPost 72
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Well, I think that definitely wins longest post award. I'm not going to try to beat that.

Unfortunately, it sounds as though this message falls on deaf ears. I hope I'm wrong on that.

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01-08-2015 03:38 AM  3 years agoPost 73
adamrs80

rrNovice

San Antonio, TX

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A little marketing couldn't hurt.

It's separate from designing new models, but they at least need to keep their name recognition up.

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01-08-2015 03:47 AM  3 years agoPost 74
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Yeah.... good, bad, or indifferent, exhaustive marketing took SAB from unknown infancy to a company that has succeeded in putting even Align into a virtual retreat in the US market.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-08-2015 04:31 AM  3 years agoPost 75
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Ben is right. SAB was a mediocre manufacturer of blades and boom in 3 years they are the ones to watch.

Look at this link for an article on DJI. From 28 employees to 2800 in a few short years.

http://finance.yahoo.com/photos/chi...8897-slideshow/

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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01-08-2015 08:01 PM  3 years agoPost 76
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Well that didn't receive half the flaming I expected.

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01-08-2015 08:10 PM  3 years agoPost 77
dschertz

rrApprentice

Jackson, MI

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Aaron, it does however seem odd that you criticized Ron and wanted that fixed, but now you are in all sense criticizing Hirobo for "not keeping up". I have discovered that it's not worth arguing with you or anybody else on how Hirobo does business. I will continue my beliefs and not force them on anyone. People that are true Hirobo fans are not going to argue with anyone. I know there are many (people I have spoke with) that refuse to get in these types of conversations. I now understand why. I think I will join them and celebrate the love of Hirobo and not the dislike. People will come up with reasons for everything good or bad. Long live Hirobo....

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01-08-2015 08:27 PM  3 years agoPost 78
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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See, you mistake my criticism of Hirobo's recent strategy as not being brand loyal, while I attest that it is the complacency, or the quiet desperation, of people who don't challenge things, that will kill the brand.

Meaning, I think my position is better for Hirobo than yours. From where I'm standing, I'm the brand fan. Just my 2 cents.

We both want Hirobo to survive. I just think it won't without an overhaul.
Long live Hirobo....
That's what we all want. Same team, different view.

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01-08-2015 08:28 PM  3 years agoPost 79
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Another way of seeing, some of the most rabid sports fans flame their teams all the time. Their fanaticism isn't questioned.

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01-09-2015 01:29 AM  3 years agoPost 80
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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I would like to add, that what Hirobo does right, they do right.

What they do right:

-Boutique helis that ooze quality, although at a higher price point. Sure they are more expensive, BUT - there's nothing wrong with paying a little extra for quality. Happens in the automobile world all the time. I do NOT want to see Hirobo drop quality in order to drop price and become a Japanese Align. I doubt anyone here would want that either. I DO think with a little strategic materials useage, that they could offer a less expensive 3D model with hop-ups for those who want the extra bits. They do this right with the SDX and Freya lines that have barebones and boutique versions.

Nothing wrong at all with continuing to offer ultra high dollar F3C birds, they are a different animal.

-Good R&D. When they debut a heli, it is awesome. The designs fly well without modification or "Version 2." I don't mind that Hirobo is slightly slower to market, because when they do it, they do it right (although 6 years and nothing on the horizon is too slow.) If they take a year to get this 600/700 EP FBL line-up out, and it's up to what I'm expecting, I'll be here ready to buy one.

I hope no matter how we feel about the current line-up, that we can agree that a new lineup would be awesome. Change CAN be good. If you're flying an SDX or D3, you know they perform better than the Sceadu and Freya. If you are flying a Sceadu or Freya, you know they perform better then the old Shuttle and Hirobo 60. Not that the old isn't good, but when Hirobo adapts, change is always positive. And each change has only added and not taken away from the old. I've never seen Hirobo take a backwards misstep with a new release. And new never means they stop supporting the older models. (Another thing Hirobo does right.)

Change can be good. If you aren't flying first edition Hirobo's from the 1980's you must at some level believe that Hirobo adaptations are positive evolutions in design.

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