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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsBeastX › New to Flybarless Tail servo Question
12-23-2014 04:09 PM  5 years ago
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jackp332

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Claremont, Nh USA

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New to Flybarless Tail servo Question
I have never had a Flybarless helicopter before. I am in the process now of accumulating the gear I will need to either outfit a new airframe or convert one of my existing birds. I am leaning towards the BeastX controller as I use the JR 9503 dsm2 radio. My question is do I need a specific tail servo for this unit to be compatible? I have several Futaba 9254's that I use with my flybar gy401 gyros. I was hoping I could use one. Any help would be appreciated. Any comments also- if you think the spectrum ar7200bx isn't the best choice for a first timer in my position?
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12-23-2014 04:39 PM  5 years ago
Santiago P

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Dayton

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Hi,
Your dilema is that your dsm2 system prefers 6V and a S9254 will burn up at that voltage, plus is not the best tail servo. You can use the system at 4.8v nominal or regulated at 5.5v IF you feed it good, consistent amps, and the 9254 will be fine.

servos to consider:
If you are on a budget try a Savox 1290 tail servo.

If you have the the mola, get any of the Futaba brushless narrow band BLS251 (regulated 6v or below), BLS256HV, or the new BLS276.

S
Team Minicopter - PeakAircraft.com
FUTABA.USA - Team Kontronik - Scorpion Motors-
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12-23-2014 06:42 PM  5 years ago
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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If you have a spare 9254 laying around it will work fine. Yes, the previous poster is correct in that it is not a top of the line, modern high voltage servo. But its completely compatible and will work every bit as well as it does on a flybarred system. You may need a stepdown diode or regulator if you're not running a 5v system though.

Go to beastx.com and click on the servolist for all the individual servo spec settings you'll need to enter when you're ready.

Also, the beastx is a really good unit for a beginner. Even if you don't understand all the terms, the instructions clearly lead you through the setup in simple to understand steps. And the performance is very good too. You'll really get a good idea on the first few flights whether fbl is for you or not. If you followed the instructions closely, and the heli flies at all, you'll be assured you have a well done setup and not left wondering if you did something wrong if you don't like how it flies.
if it ain't broke, break it.
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12-23-2014 06:48 PM  5 years ago
DemetriusUSN

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Virginia Beach, Va USA

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If you can, pick up a Align 650 tail servo,6v and it's a great servo and the first pm is spot on. I also fly the 9503 with ar7200bx and love it. I'm sending It Horizon for the dsmx upgrade.Minicopter Triabolo 700, Minicopter Diabolo 700, Minicopter Diabolo 600, Minicopter Diabolo 550, Goblin 770, HD 750, HD Cell 500
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12-23-2014 11:08 PM  5 years ago
jackp332

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Claremont, Nh USA

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Thank you guys very much for the input. I have been putting off trying flybarless for a while now and I am still relatively new to flying helis so I tend to stick with what I'm comfortable with. All my current helis are regulated at 6v and I use the in line step down for my 9254's so they see a constant 5v. I will probably try one initially for cost sake as I just picked up a good set of cyclics and still need to buy an AR7200BX. I will definitely consider the servos you all have recommended though if I decide to upgrade.
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12-24-2014 12:26 AM  5 years ago
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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I just wanted to add a couple of things that you might not know and I didn't see in the other posts.. all the info given is right on the marks...
With the AR7200BX you will need to purchase a DSMX satellite.. even though you are running DSM2 equipment... don't get worried, it will work just fine with what your running...
I also agree that the 9254 will be fine as long as you step the voltage down that goes to it... and the rest can all be run at 6 volts... that will insure that you have plenty of power going to the cyclic servos...
Not sure how far along your flying is, but if you are doing circuits and figure 8 type flying, the 7200 has a "sport" set up preprogrammed that you can use.. and it flies very nicely... I would also tell you to increase the deadband from the default 2 setting to 4... this will make things a lot easier when taking off...it will stop any possible tipping if you are still mixing your sticks at liftoff... the best thing to do is to come up to HS and then lift off and leave the right stick alone until you are in the air...(only a second or two!!!)
Also, DO NOT plug your servos into the BX until you set the proper operating info that the other post told you to find at the BeastX site.. once that info is entered, just follow the instructions and you will have a very nice flying heli...
Once you get your unit, if you need any help going through the set up, just let me know and we can get on a phone and walk right through it...
Good Luck

Stan
AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft
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12-24-2014 12:31 AM  5 years ago
Santiago P

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Dayton

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"If you can, pick up a Align 650 tail servo,6v"

FYI
The align 650 is a rebadged Savox 1290. I rather buy it from who actually makes the servo.

And I do agree with the other guys, for basic and sport flight, the 9254 is more than adequate.

S
Team Minicopter - PeakAircraft.com
FUTABA.USA - Team Kontronik - Scorpion Motors-
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12-24-2014 12:37 AM  5 years ago
DemetriusUSN

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Virginia Beach, Va USA

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Okay.....let's not get off topic..Minicopter Triabolo 700, Minicopter Diabolo 700, Minicopter Diabolo 600, Minicopter Diabolo 550, Goblin 770, HD 750, HD Cell 500
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12-24-2014 12:41 AM  5 years ago
jackp332

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Thank you Stan and Santiago. Yes my flying includes circuits, figure 8 's, and autos as well. I am into scale style flying basically. I have heard of this tip over issue at lift off so that is something I will have to read about and understand how the controller works prior to my first flight. Also, thanks for the tip on needing the dsmX satelite. I do have one now that is on a dsmX RX i am not using. Looking forward to trying this
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12-24-2014 03:36 AM  5 years ago
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Good information here. For once, we have a post where everyone seems to agree. Must be the Christmas magic at work.

All I wish to add here is that your 9254 will be happy running with a regulated input voltage of up to 5.8 VDC.

Using the X9503 transmitter with the AR7200BX will require just a bit of sleight of hand...

The AR7200BX is designed to use Channel 5 as the tail rotor Gyro Gain control.

Your X9503 is set to use Channel 7 to control a tail rotor gyro when using the Gyro Sense menu.

NEITHER unit can be reprogrammed with respect to their default channels for gyro input control.

HOWEVER, all is NOT lost.

With your X9503, if you are used to using the Gyro Sense menu in AUTO mode to control a gyro, you already know that the Flight Mode Switch controls the Gyro setting, using channel 7, and that you get a separate, adjustable gain for each flight mode.

If you wish to continue to have the convenience of using the Flight Mode Switch to control the tail rotor Gyro gain using your X9503, and having a separate adjustable gain for each flight mode, the solution is dirt simple.

Go into the X9503 Device Select menu. The GEAR switch has three possible settings:

INH -- Inhibit the Gear switch function.
ACT -- Activate the Gear switch function.
GOV -- Activate the Governor control function.

If you set the GEAR switch to "GOV" in the Device Select menu, you will find a NEW menu item in the function list menu. Along with Pitch and Throttle curves, you'll see a GOVERNOR selection.

Open the Governor function menu, you'll see settings very similar to what you see in the Gyro Sense menu. The X9503 uses CHANNEL 5 as the channel to control a Governor for a Nitro heli.

By enabling the GOVernor function in your X9503, Channel 5 can easily be used to control the GYRO in the AR7200BX. The Flight Mode Switch will select one of the gains in the Governor Menu associated with each flight mode. You also have the ability to have the gain function numbers range from 0 to -100 (which would be Gyro gain, 0 to 100% in Normal/Rate mode), and 0 to +100 (which would be Gyro gain, 0 to 100% in Heading hold mode)

So -- enable the GOV function for GEAR in the Device Select menu, and use the GOVERNOR menu to set your individual gains, and the Flight Mode Switch takes care of the rest.

-----

OR -- you set the GEAR setting to "ACT". This will allow you to use the GEAR switch on your TX to control your AR7200BX gyro using channel 5. The down side is that you get only two gains...a single Heading Hold gain for ALL flight modes when the switch is up (gain controlled by the Gear UP endpoint setting, and a single Rate/Normal mode gain for ALL flight modes when the GEAR switch is DOWN, with Rate/Normal mode gain set by the Gear DOWN endpoint travel setting.

-----

Enjoy your new venture into flybarless setup and flying.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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12-24-2014 12:22 PM  5 years ago
Retired2011

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Lee's Summit, MO

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Okay.....let's not get off topic..
Aren't we still talking about tail servos?

FYI Jack, I've been running a 9254 @ 6v for several months now...no problems yet.
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12-24-2014 02:46 PM  5 years ago
jackp332

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Claremont, Nh USA

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Thank you for the detailed explanation of the 9503 setup. I currently have 6ch receivers in all my helis and I use channel 5 (gear) to control my gain via the EPA. I also have the Aircraft version instead of the heli version if that makes any difference.
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12-24-2014 03:54 PM  5 years ago
Santiago P

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Dayton

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Jack,
You got it, Using the EPA is the sure and old fashion way of setting the gain.
You might be able to find a chart or correlation of how high of a gain you set/need.

actually, the manual shows the range and light status indicator
HOWEVER, all is NOT lost.
I lost you at "HOWEVER", LOL

Christmas wish: That Dave would learn to keep his posts down to one large monitor, browser page.

Just kidding,

Merry Christmas

Santiago
Team Minicopter - PeakAircraft.com
FUTABA.USA - Team Kontronik - Scorpion Motors-
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12-24-2014 04:35 PM  5 years ago
DemetriusUSN

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Virginia Beach, Va USA

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That's how I've set and used the gain on both my helis. As you click through the numbers for the end point, I watch the light on the unit to make sure it's on the correct letter, I think it's between f and g. Once you do that, your tail is done. My 7hv and 6hv are almost the same setting. Learned the end point adjustment from watch Finless Bob videos.Minicopter Triabolo 700, Minicopter Diabolo 700, Minicopter Diabolo 600, Minicopter Diabolo 550, Goblin 770, HD 750, HD Cell 500
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12-24-2014 08:34 PM  5 years ago
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Sorry about the long post, Santiago.

Seeing as the OP is new to FBL, new to the AR7200BX, and is using an X9503 transmitter, I figured I'd save him a lot of grief up front.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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12-24-2014 08:56 PM  5 years ago
jackp332

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Claremont, Nh USA

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Dave, it's much appreciated! Thank you for taking the time. I'm a reader of manuals/instructions so I enjoyed it. I still have yet to pick up an AR7200BX- hoping for a good deal soon from a member here. Then I will just have to decide on an airframe.

And 6v on your 9254? Chet, you're a rebel. Society wants you to run 5.4v but you just won't conform
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12-24-2014 09:02 PM  5 years ago
Santiago P

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Dayton

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Dave,

Please, nothing to apologize for.
So many folks are thankful for all the great and detailed information you offer, me included.

One of my best friends is a senior aerospace systems engineer, and the smallest questions trigger a several pages answer.
I start reading and always say, MAN, I got so much to learn! and I am no spring chicken...

I am sure many here at RR go to school reading your answers.

If it were not for folks like you, Dr Ben, Ron Thomas, TMoore, and other very experienced modelers this forum would be a worthless chatroom.

Merry Christmas my friend

S

so NOW I'm off topic
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12-24-2014 11:56 PM  5 years ago
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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Long Post??
Actually reading Dave's post taught me that you could have different settings with idle up... never knew that..
I just always have just used the EPA on the gear channel too, as others have noted..
Thanks for that

Stan
AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft
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12-25-2014 01:48 AM  5 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Chet,

Stick a diode in the feed to that 9254. They honest to goodness do not play well long term on 6volts. This is NOT the same kind of debate as whether a BLS251 will handle 6 volts. 9254's give minimal warning when they fail. Don't risk a model.

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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12-25-2014 02:14 AM  5 years ago
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Even though you have a plank version of the X9503, all the heli goodies are there. The position of the Flight mode switch is in an odd place.-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsBeastX › New to Flybarless Tail servo Question
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