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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › When Do You Stop Flying Electric?
12-22-2014 03:06 PM  5 years ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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The less you discharge a pack the longer it will last BUT, 2 minute flight times aren't much fun which is why people came to the conclusion that taking 80% capacity was the best balance between pack life and flight time.
your making the assumption they set up for a 3 minute to begin with

I try to set up for 6 min and fly 5
spending time, paying attention
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12-22-2014 04:03 PM  5 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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This is only any good if you know the true capacity of the pack. See Dr. Ben's post warning of the danger of taking the label in blind faith and also packs lose capacity over time so ICUR1-2's cycle test on a charger is invaluable.
Now we are spitting hairs. If the pack is not what it says it is, you need to buy better packs, simple. I have flowed the 80% rule since lipos have been out and it has never let me down. Now I just look at my VControl and roll with it
Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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12-22-2014 05:59 PM  5 years ago
Retired2011

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Lee's Summit, MO

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The less you discharge a pack the longer it will last BUT, 2 minute flight times aren't much fun which is why people came to the conclusion that taking 80% capacity was the best balance between pack life and flight time.
your making the assumption they set up for a 3 minute to begin with
Really, the least flight time I have is 5 min on my little Logo 400, 6 min on the E5, and 7 min on the TDR - never end up below 30% left on even my cheapest, oldest packs!
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12-22-2014 06:12 PM  5 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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I just used 2 minutes as a short flight time example, anything less and it wouldn't be worth taking off in the first place! Haha.

I personally can't stand deciding between flight time and power/fun, so im now totally nitro on my serious helis bigger than a 550!
60% of the time, it works every time!
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12-22-2014 07:12 PM  5 years ago
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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JLog2 sounds really interesting.... $135 price tag is pretty steep. I am looking at it unless something else pops up.

The idea of this thread really is telemetry of the current state of the battery, not after flight completed. Yes, Yes, Yes, I agree with all of you saying 80% but wringing everything out of the tank while airborne is my goal.

Thx
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12-22-2014 08:06 PM  5 years ago
Ace Dude

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USA

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JLog2 sounds really interesting.... $135 price tag is pretty steep. I am looking at it unless something else pops up.
If you only want telemetry the GW version is available which does not include logging for ~$70.00.

  
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12-22-2014 08:30 PM  5 years ago
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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i would look into the eagle tree data logger at 70 and couple more for the lcd screen all you have to do is land and look at the screen to know the mah used and well as several other key details depending what you have displayed on the dash its not telemetry but they do offer a seagull system for telemetry

http://www.eagletreesystems.com/ind...t&product_id=54
Trex600n,Trex500,MR25,MikadoLoGo5003d/KDE,Goblin 380XNova,CastleCreations,Ys,JR XG8,Tags Mini XBus Dmss//FAA# FA3NYC9TAP
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12-22-2014 09:32 PM  5 years ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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what does squeezing out every bit of juice do more for you?
let's say you do have an onboard MAH fuel gauge and you only drain 80%
( 80% is just a guide line and not meant for every lipo btw).
you might gain 30 seconds to a minute at best.
is it worth it for a whole minute gained.

for now the way we do it just fine and in most cases better for the battery than being drained all the way
spending time, paying attention
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12-22-2014 09:35 PM  5 years ago
gwright

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Champaign Il

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I set a timer for 15 minutes just as a "safety" in case telemetry has an issue, although it hasn't failed since i started using it and it's on all machines. Telemetry alarm set for 3.2V/cell, which is a tenth lower than I ever see in a burst, and if they hit 3.2 under a hard load in the air, they generally read 3.75~3.8 with no load. The "REAL" indication of time to stop is the mah used telemetry datapoint. I set it for 80% usage of the pack in ma,..i.e. 4000 out of a 5000pack. the 80% capacity alarm is the real notice to stop, and the low voltage and timer are just like first and second line safeties. The mah alarm usually tells me to stop between 12 and 15 minutes depending on which machine, so I never hear the "safeties".

No those numbers are not typo's, I run multiple rpm setups, and the low rpm is dramatically low. I like that flight mode the most, so my flight times are pretty darn long.
Gary Wright
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12-22-2014 10:20 PM  5 years ago
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Thanks AceDude...

Why do I want telemetry current reading? because if I am flying an aircraft, I don't want to crash and I need to be able to accurately predict when I am going to run out of power. Yes, of course I agree with all of you on predictions using 80% guideline etc, but conditions vary. How hard of flying did I do? What did air temp do to the batteries? What about air density? Did I mess up the battery chemistry on the last flight?

As those environment and flying conditions change, you could predict. You could land every minute, but what a nuisance. The country is littered with many GA aircraft that ran out of fuel. Even if I know how many mAHrs I have used, I really don't know the size of the tank (AKA battery). It is a moving target.

If your family car had 5 gallons of gas in the tank that you could never use, would you be happy about that? So when I buy a 5Ahr battery, why don't I get 5AHr of useable power? Seems reasonable to me.

I think that I have my answer and know how to proceed. Thanks for all the thoughtful responses.
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12-22-2014 10:36 PM  5 years ago
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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I could imagine mah telemetry being more use full on fpv platforms or for new pilots just learning.

but for an every day beater I dunno if I would.
the jlogger looks very enticing
spending time, paying attention
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12-23-2014 12:13 AM  5 years ago
Ace Dude

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USA

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Thanks AceDude...
No problem, glad I could help. You may also want to take a look at the UniSens-E:

http://www.sm-modellbau.de/shop/ind...f7e191b40bdbbbf

The site is in German. Use Chrome or Google Translate to view in English.
  
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12-23-2014 12:39 AM  5 years ago
gwright

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Champaign Il

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I use the unisense-E devices on everything simply because I wanted mah usage.
Splatter, you want current because current and time give you capacity utilization. that's the only way you'll know how much you have left in the tank. 5000mah pack, set it for 4000mah used to alert you and land,.. or, keep flying knowing your getting near the end. It's like your gas needle saying you have half a quarter of a tank left. You look for a gas station. Voltage varies so much under load it's not the best indicator. It's sort of like measuring how much octane your gas has and stating you have half a tank left based on the octane,...i.e. it's not indicative of quantity remaining.Not a great analogy, but makes the point
fly harder, easier, low rpm, high rpm,.. all is computed correctly.
Gary Wright
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12-23-2014 11:31 AM  5 years ago
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Ace and GW - thanks guys

Danke, Mein Deutsch es kinder. I am very familiar with Chrome. Fantastic stuff.

I will give unisense-E a look. OK, you guys have got me good, now I have to buy new transmitter and receivers... Spektrum not supported. I got on the wait list for the JLog 2.6 seems like there is a transition from Graupner going on.

Now if we just knew how big the tank really was all the time, but that will take record keeping. You guys get it. I love banging 3D, but that is not all that can be done with rotary craft. Even buzzing around in a multi-rotor, some flights use more power than others.

$135 seems steep, but you have to pay to play. If it works, it works. I am pretty sure that the Spektrum device $35 would really sell if it tracked usage.
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12-23-2014 02:08 PM  5 years ago
gwright

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Champaign Il

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I looked around since Futaba does not have a mah usage sensor. there are a few options, but the unisens-E did many things rather than just mah usage, so i went that route. Only takes me about 3 to 5 minutes to set one up with the 14SG and get the telemetry displays configured the way I like them.Of course the first one took a few hours and several adult beverages one night in the workshop <G> . Now I know all the steps . It was difficult at first with all the documentation in German. The software you must use with their dongle (oh yeah, get one of those) is in German also. I don't speak German, so that took a bit with an online translator. You know the term for a person that speaks three languages? Trilingual,.. Two languages, Bilingual,.. just a single language?,.. American

1-Use dongle to set the unisens for the type radio you're using. HOTT is default, so I have to plug in dongle and change to futaba protocol

2-solder everything together (I use plugs so if i want to move the unisense to other models, but I've bought them for each heli now,..it's simpler)

3-Register the sensor in the transmitter (have to do it 3 times, the unisense is recognized by futaba as three sensors although it's in one device)

4-configure the telemetry display in the transmitter to display the elements in the order you want to see them

5-setup any alarms (capacity alarm, voltage alarm, etc)

6-fly and wait for the vibration alert you setup in step 5 to tell you to land.
Gary Wright
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12-23-2014 02:39 PM  5 years ago
Andy from Sandy

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Bedfordshire, UK

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Having just googled I found this that might help others

http://www.f5b.co.uk/uploads/2/5/8/...ens_e_v1.07.pdf
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12-23-2014 03:36 PM  5 years ago
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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I cannot seem to find JLog in stock anywhere, and the unisense-e does not work with Spektrum.

Anybody have a source with the item in stock?
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12-23-2014 03:46 PM  5 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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According to Danny, dealers should have them in stock next week.  
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12-24-2014 12:06 AM  5 years ago
rhodesengr

rrApprentice

Pleasanton, CA USA

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If you must have real time reading, mAh is the only reading that will help. Not sure if other mentioned this but one possible solution is the Eagletree elogger. The elogger itself is not expensive but it has it own telemetry system which does seems little pricey but it will do what you are asking.

http://www.eagletreesystems.com/ind...2&product_id=54

http://www.eagletreesystems.com/ind...t&product_id=58
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12-24-2014 09:51 AM  5 years ago
Kirby James

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USA

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Yes you are right Andy this is only if you know the true capacity of the pack and thanks for giving me the reference of Dr. Ben's post warning of the danger.
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › When Do You Stop Flying Electric?
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