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T-REX 700 › Trex 700 Tail issue
11-17-2014 01:22 AM  3 years agoPost 1
GBaker110583

rrNovice

Chandler AZ

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I have a trex 700 dominator all stock except for the beastx and when I do a hard punch out the tail has a slight jerk to the left.. meaning the tail jerks to the left and the nose jerks to the right.. I have set the head lock gain setting in the bestx all the way up, my gain is high enough any higher and it wags and I have added a slight amount of tail revo mix to try and counteract this behavior. I have just started running gov mode and it seems to only happen when the head is loaded and the motor has to add throttle... Again it is only when I do a hard punch out... Stock mains and tails.. any suggestions??

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11-17-2014 03:22 AM  3 years agoPost 2
rcflyerheli

rrKey Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

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If it were a Vbar, I would say you have too much torque precomp. As you load up the blades, torque tries to make the tail rotate to the right or CCW. If there is too much precomp, the gyro sees the tail start to move, but over reacts and causes it to go back to the left (CW).

I would suggest to maybe lengthen your tail control rod by a turn, and if the beastx does have torque precomp, lower that value slightly.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
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11-17-2014 04:14 AM  3 years agoPost 3
GBaker110583

rrNovice

Chandler AZ

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This issue was happening without tail precomp... I though about increasing end points on the tail but I don't see how that would solve the problem.... I'm considering longer tails and shorter mains like rails or something along those lines... I'll try increasing tail end points before I buy new parts though.

Thank you for your help!! I'll keep everyone updated on what happenes

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11-17-2014 04:47 AM  3 years agoPost 4
rcflyerheli

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Granbury, TX USA

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IMHO, it's not something like end points. I have two 700DFCs, and I haven't seen anything like this on either one. I had some original issues with the first one, and I resolved it by changing the length on my tail control rod and by adjusting the precomp values. That's why I made the suggestions. Just out of curiosity, what tail and mains are you using, 700s and 105s? Going to say 110 tail blades (CYE) or Rail 106s might be an inexpensive way to change some things.

I can't discuss specifics on the Beastx as I fly Vbar, but I have been doing this long enough to have a general feel for what is happening. If you haven't adjusted your endpoints to get full deflection without binding, yes, I would do that. I don't really think it will solve your issue, though. Before you do that, try lengthening the push rod to the tail. Then make the end point adjustment. Try it and see what you get.

FWIW, unless you have some binding on your tail; mechanically, I don't feel it would cause you to see what you are seeing. What governor are you running - Beastx or Castle? If your governor gain is too high, it can cause the tail to act like it has too much gain. I did see that on my first 700. As soon as I dropped the governor gain, that problem disappeared, and I've now been flying that heli for a couple years.

Good luck. Hope this helps

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
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11-17-2014 05:10 AM  3 years agoPost 5
GBaker110583

rrNovice

Chandler AZ

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I didn't mean to sound like I was dismissing your suggestions.. if I came across that way I'm sorry. I appreciate your help. I'm using the stock 700 mains and 105 tails.. I'm using the given or function in the castle 120. I'm somewhat new to most of this and I'm nowhere near expert. I'll lengthen the tail rod and see what happens. I hope it solves the issue. It's a slight Jerk and seems to happen when the motor torques to provide power.

what's frustrating is that I've had two shops work in the heli and I really can't seem to get an answer in how to fix the issue.

All that being said I'm not a hard core smack down 3D pilot yet and it only happens when I do a hard punch out... it more of an annoyance just because I know it's there and doesn't affect my flights when I'm doing 8s and circuits like that

As far and the end points the stock align HV servos are quite and done have chatter so I can't tell when they bind when setting end points... so I pushed the tail to the end and then backed off a tad to prevent any chance of binding. But like you said it probably isn't a tail end point issue but might be that the rod needs a turn out to lengthen it which is cheaper than a hundred bucks on mains and tails.

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11-17-2014 05:24 AM  3 years agoPost 6
rcflyerheli

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Granbury, TX USA

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Don't worry, not taken that way at all.

On the endpoints, how does the beastx control that? Or is it done in your radio. Also on your governor setup, are you using set RPM or Governor High? If set rpm, what values are you running in your throttle curves?

On the tail, listen close to the servo. When the tail slider hits the stop, you should hear a humming sound from the servo. Back off only enough to eliminate the hum.

Also, not dissing the shops, but unless whomever is behind the counter actually flies helis, they may not have as much knowledge as you do.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
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11-17-2014 01:39 PM  3 years agoPost 7
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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If the tail is moving to the left (nose right) you have the tail pre comp set in the wrong direction in the BeastX.

Viewed from behind and from MID collective stick to either full + or - pitch the tail pitch slider should move slightly towards the tail box (left).

60% of the time, it works every time!

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11-17-2014 09:28 PM  3 years agoPost 8
GBaker110583

rrNovice

Chandler AZ

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I'm still working the issue... I just did a flight with tail precomp off and lengthened the tail control rod by one turn. The Jerk was still there. I've set the precomp in the opposite direction and I'm waiting on packs charging to try it again

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11-20-2014 10:34 AM  3 years agoPost 9
RussJ

rrApprentice

lockport, new york usa

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I had the same issue on mine with the Beast-x. I was never able to fully get it under control the way I wanted to see it. A little pre-comp does help it and make sure the pre-comp is going in the right direction like Richardmid1 suggested. The biggest problem I found was the governor gain on mine. I am running set-rpm on mine. My gain is turned down to 8 and the low value seemed to make a huge differance. The unfortunate thing you have going for you is the Beast-x does not have a lot of areas that you can fine tune things and the Castle governor just isnt really all that good. I now understand why a lot of the pros that run Castle esc`s use an external governor like V-Bar etc or they run a Kontronik esc with the governor on that.

Russ

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11-20-2014 10:39 AM  3 years agoPost 10
RussJ

rrApprentice

lockport, new york usa

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Going to say 110 tail blades (CYE) or Rail 106s might be an inexpensive way to change some things.
+1 on that suggestion

Russ

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11-20-2014 11:10 AM  3 years agoPost 11
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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There are a few easy ways you can reduce or stop torque yaw.

1. Higher head speed
2. Less governor head room (smaller pinion but keep same head speed)
3. Longer tail blades
4. Lower governor gain
5. Higher tail gain (NOT heading hold gain in BeastX)
6th and best way is to use tail pre compensation (it is VERY easy to get this the wrong way round so double check).

60% of the time, it works every time!

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11-20-2014 04:42 PM  3 years agoPost 12
GBaker110583

rrNovice

Chandler AZ

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Well here is an update. I recentered the tail control rod with out tail precomp and it still had the jerk... added precomp to where the tail slider goes towards the tail gear box during heavy pitch maneuvers and increased my gyro gain. The Jerk is still there but it's more manageable. .. I have not tried altering the gov gain because I simply don't know how... I do have a feeling that smaller mains and larger tails will do the trick but I can't spend that kind of money right now. If possible I'll try to get a flight video as I know some of this is hard to diagnose without seeing it. I'm wondering if lowering my headlock gain would have any benefit or not. It's on the highest setting right now

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11-20-2014 05:03 PM  3 years agoPost 13
rcflyerheli

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Granbury, TX USA

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I assume that being stock, you are running the CC ICE/Edge ESC that came with the kit. Do you have the Castle link that will connect it to your computer?

If so, it's really simple to set the governor gain. Just start the Castle software, plug in your USB/Castle link, and connect it to your ESC. Then plug in the main power source for the ESC.

You should be in the first tab for the program when it starts. Click on the throttle tab and check to make sure you are in Helicopter, governor, set rpm mode. Just below that is a dropdown box titled governor gain. The default value starts at 15. Just click on the dropdown arrow and select custom and then set the gain value to a lower value.

Then go down to the bottom right corner and click on the update button to send the settings into the ESC.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
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11-20-2014 05:15 PM  3 years agoPost 14
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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ESC settings

http://www.castlecreations.com/supp...00mx-510kv.html

or (Same settings, different head speeds)

http://www.castlecreations.com/supp...00mx-530kv.html

Does it hover steady in rate mode?

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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11-20-2014 05:30 PM  3 years agoPost 15
GBaker110583

rrNovice

Chandler AZ

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I haven't tried hovering it in rate mode. I've always been in heading hold.... I can certainly lift it up in rate and see... what would that indicate?

I'll check the gain on the gov. I have the castle 120 that came with the kit and yes I have the programming cable... I'll plug it in and see what the gain value is set at... I think I changed it from 15 though.. I just can't remember.

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11-20-2014 09:19 PM  3 years agoPost 16
GBaker110583

rrNovice

Chandler AZ

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I decreased gov gain down to 8 from 10. It seems to help a bit... don't get me wrong this fly able just when I try to do hard tic tocks or climb outs is when it's noticeable. I did try to hover in rate and that did not work....

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11-20-2014 11:35 PM  3 years agoPost 17
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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The hovering in rate mode is to ascertain that its setup mechanically correct.

I would just reset all values to default on the beastx and ESC and start from scratch.

What head speeds and pitch are you running?

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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11-21-2014 10:30 AM  3 years agoPost 18
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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added precomp to where the tail slider goes towards the tail gear box during heavy pitch maneuvers
Make sure it goes towards the tail box from mid collective to max? If you still have tail kick try it on the high setting.
I'm wondering if lowering my headlock gain would have any benefit or not.
Yes do that, you should be as high as you can go on the normal gain before increasing the heading lock gain. Heading lock gain should only be played with if you have inconsistant piroette speed in wind or in forward flight.

Also as Pete says, tell us what head speed and pitch you are running?

60% of the time, it works every time!

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11-21-2014 01:44 PM  3 years agoPost 19
GBaker110583

rrNovice

Chandler AZ

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I'm running 12 degrees pitch. My heli is not near me right now but what head speeds would you all recommend?

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11-21-2014 01:59 PM  3 years agoPost 20
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Anything over 1700 is a waste of "flight time". That said, I would just go by castle recommended settings as a starting reference to nail down your issue first.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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