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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › The Republicans control the House and the Senate!
11-12-2014 04:17 AM  3 years agoPost 341
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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11-12-2014 04:21 AM  3 years agoPost 342
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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11-12-2014 12:20 PM  3 years agoPost 343
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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The Democrats had total control of the government and what did they do? They passed a seven thousand page lie called Obamacare!

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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11-12-2014 12:33 PM  3 years agoPost 344
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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The single largest and most expensive fraud ever perpetrated on America.

Could it get any worse with the repubs?

Answer: yes, they could leave ObummerCare intact.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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11-12-2014 03:19 PM  3 years agoPost 345
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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I think this right here is the fallacy. Sounds like I'm up against someone who took a Keynesian college class.
Nope. See, this is how Laissez-Faire Capitalism works in practice, regardless of your theoretical leanings on how it should work. In the real world, you will never, ever find a LFC participant who wants anything other than an utter monopoly on its market. Ever. It will not even be secretive about it; it'll be a charter goal expressed out loud at every quarterly company meeting. If it tries to do anything less, it will not be successful.
Just ask your boss at your current job. Or talk to the CEO or COO about the primary goals of the company.

This is a reality of LFC. Monopoly is the goal. Period.
No great thinker, not even Ayn Rand or Adam Smith or even the other sides like Martha Nussbaum or Peter Singer advocated monopolies. That is why anti trust laws date back to the 1800's.
That is exactly right. That's why they were great thinkers. And why anti-trust laws with teeth in them are so vital.

And why it's so dangerous to dismantle anti-trust laws and the government that enforces them as US conservatives want to do. Ronald Reagan was famous for his hostility to organized labor and other efforts to maintain the rules of the game in a free market. American conservatism maintains that hostility to this day and does everything it can to disguise it and sell it to its victims.

And that's why pulling that Republican handle at election time is a shot into your own foot and not that of your opponents.
One thing is undeniably true though. Governments historically have killed the most people, crashed the most economies and are most susceptible to corruption. This is why we have the constitution. Not to limit people, but to limit government.
Only partly right. The other function of a republican form of government - the supremacy of the law - is to give the government the power to enforce the law. It not only limits government, it also empowers it. The rule of law is a compromise, as all good forms of government are.
If the government cannot control industry, they cannot allow it to be corrupted. Its a really hard thing to grasp, but the answer to complex problems usually do not revolve around what seems like the a common sense answer.
Again, you do not govern based on what criminals intend to do - you never seek guidance from the criminal when making decisions about that criminal's behavior.

If you limit government simply because you view criminal behavior as immutable, then you've gone off the rails somewhere.
Adverse selection and critical thinking are not the strong points of our politicians or electorate.
We mostly agree here, but I don't agree that this is acceptable. This isn't what governing ourselves is about.

LS

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11-12-2014 03:26 PM  3 years agoPost 346
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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WHo is STUPID enought to Believe this ??? and Play Go- FIsh ??
That's why they were great thinkers. And why it's so dangerous to dismantle anti-trust laws as US conservatives want to do.
Waste of Band Width for Indoctrination of SOCIALISM :
The other function of a republican form of government - the supremacy of the law - is to give the government the power to enforce the law. It not only limits government, it also empowers it.
ALmost from MAU's Little Red BOOK

Candy for the Infidel : Snort it UP !

greyeagle

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11-12-2014 03:31 PM  3 years agoPost 347
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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In the real world, you will never, ever find a LFC participant who wants anything other than an utter monopoly on its market. Ever.

The best example of Laissez-Faire Capitalism as you describe would be China.

Not the USA.

Besides, the USA private sector does not work like they wish to destroy all competition. They merely wish to compete and survive by making a profit. In fact, I have seen many circumstances where a company will work with their competition to further each other goals of survival. Monopolies are illegal in the USA and have been broken up in court battles.

The Japanese do business to destroy competition. Thats natural for them as its engrained in their society. They are struggling now. Not sure if thats the only reason why. But, it could be a contributing factor.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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11-12-2014 03:32 PM  3 years agoPost 348
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Right now, I am a registered independent. I stopped registering as a repub during the Bush admin and all that worthless immigration reform nonsense.
Then why do you adhere to so much conservative nonsense?

LS

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11-12-2014 03:34 PM  3 years agoPost 349
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Besides, the USA private sector does not work like they wish to destroy all competition. They merely wish to compete and survive by making a profit.
Nope. Try going to your CEO and saying "you know, I think we've acquired enough of our market. Our competitors are really starting to suffer, so I think we should back off and give them a shot. Competition is healthy, you know?".

Let me know what his/her response is.

LS

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11-12-2014 03:43 PM  3 years agoPost 350
Wave

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Illinois

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Greenspan's retraction, tho, was pretty earth-shaking. I mean, the guy was basically previewing "Atlas Shrugged" as Rand was writing it. That's dedication to Ayn Rand if there ever was such a thing. He wrote and wrote for decades in the Randian/Objectivist mold and was basically completely dedicated to ideas like Laissez-Faire Capitalism /Free Market and other Objectivist thinking in economics.
So for him to turn around and admit that Laissez-Faire had failed was surely very highly motivated.
FYI

Ayn Rand was a sociopath and a speed freak.

Methinks Greenspan finally figured that out.

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11-12-2014 03:48 PM  3 years agoPost 351
rander1

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Dallastown, PA

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Nope. See, this is how Laissez-Faire Capitalism works in practice, regardless of your theoretical leanings on how it should work. In the real world, you will never, ever find a LFC participant who wants anything other than an utter monopoly on its market. Ever. It will not even be secretive about it; it'll be a charter goal expressed out loud at every quarterly company meeting. If it tries to do anything less, it will not be successful.
Just ask your boss at your current job. Or talk to the CEO or COO about the primary goals of the company.
It doesnt matter what they want, the laws will not permit them. If a merger or bankruptcy will result in a monopoly it is disallowed by law. You are assuming that FMC does not allow anti trust laws and that is simply wrong.

Show me a reputable source that states FMC advocates a lawless society advocating monopolies.

I think your problem is that FMC is simply misunderstood for what it advocates.

Not to throw the education card, but I've studied economics for a long time. No economic system is perfect but FMC provides the most liberty with the best outcome possible.

The alternatives, socialism and communism are repressive and end up with the least amount of happiness.

I'll say it again, we havent had a true FMC economy since the industrial ages.

FMC works off the principles of mutually beneficial exchange. If one side of the transaction does not think they will benefit from the transaction they will not participate. In order to understand these principles, you have to understand the behaviors of human beings.

Tic Toc Tic Toc

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11-12-2014 03:49 PM  3 years agoPost 352
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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It was Funner to Listen to the Permissiveness and Intimacy / Justification to have Sex in the Gay Life style and HOW we ALL should change like many other cultures.

This COUNTRY of State's is a DEMOCRACY not a Communist Socialistic Culture. NOT TO TEACH = CO - DEPENDENCY on OTHER's .

QUESTION ; ??? do you think OBAMA's 10 year VISA Extension will pass Congress or be enacted by Executive order ???

OR the OR : The Easy Button ???

Congress : Control of the House and Senate : ON TOPIC not to FISH in Distraction ..................

BACK to + ONTOPIC or TEaching the Homosexual Life style ?

greyeagle

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11-12-2014 03:50 PM  3 years agoPost 353
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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Then why do you adhere to so much conservative nonsense?
Because I am a right leaning independent.

There are independents that lean left.
Nope. Try going to your CEO and saying "you know, I think we've acquired enough of our market. Our competitors are really starting to suffer, so I think we should back off and give them a shot. Competition is healthy, you know?".

Let me know what his/her response is.
Obviously they would never say that. That would be stupid and self defeating.

However, destroying their competition is not the primary goal of US corporations. Survival with a profit is.

Competition is thought of in the USA as a good thing. It keeps corporations price structure and quality structure in line. If they don't they die. With or without competition. Thats always good for consumers.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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11-12-2014 03:51 PM  3 years agoPost 354
Wave

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

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Besides, the USA private sector does not work like they wish to destroy all competition. They merely wish to compete and survive by making a profit.
Your right Dennis, that statement right there pegs your bull**** meter.

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11-12-2014 03:54 PM  3 years agoPost 355
Wave

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

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However, destroying their competition is not the primary goal of US corporations. Survival with a profit is.
Destroying, purchasing, or merging with, IS in fact the goal.

Greed is good. Mo money.

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11-12-2014 04:02 PM  3 years agoPost 356
koppter

rrApprentice

Virginia

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nice try dennis, but cooperating between two competing companies is an anti competitive practice called collusion and its illegal as hell. So no, you haven't seen it because if you had, the FTC would have also seen it and hauled the companies into court.

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11-12-2014 04:15 PM  3 years agoPost 357
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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It doesnt matter what they want, the laws will not permit them. If a merger or bankruptcy will result in a monopoly it is disallowed by law. You are assuming that FMC does not allow anti trust laws and that is simply wrong.
Show me a reputable source that states FMC advocates a lawless society advocating monopolies.
I think your problem is that FMC is simply misunderstood for what it advocates.
What I'm trying to get you to see here, though, is the difference between theoretical FMC and FMC in practice. You are exactly right that LF/FM capitalists may accept a limited governmental role in market oversight in the classroom. US Libertarianism is probably the closest to advocating completely unfettered FMC in theory, but I agree with you otherwise.

But in practice, your CEO will tell you the only restraint against them is, in fact, the law. For example, the CEO of my company otherwise sounds like Dennis - he almost says "Obummer" at each company meeting when Frank-Dodd is brought up. Of course full compliance with the law is always discussed, but nobody at the company is ever ever happy about it.

Otherwise, as I said, your CEO too will never ever express anything other than a complete focus on utter takeover of the market absent any regulatory constraint. Ever. You will never hear that.
Not to throw the education card, but I've studied economics for a long time. No economic system is perfect but FMC provides the most liberty with the best outcome possible.
I respect that, but at the same time, I've been working for capitalists for 30+ years now - I've never seen a single one ever happy or even willing about government regulation against a complete takeover of their markets. The level playing field is only something they ever comply with. It is never ever voluntary ever.
The alternatives, socialism and communism are repressive and end up with the least amount of happiness.
I'll say it again, we havent had a true FMC economy since the industrial ages.
FMC works off the principles of mutually beneficial exchange. If one side of the transaction does not think they will benefit from the transaction they will not participate. In order to understand these principles, you have to understand the behaviors of human beings.
I think we're covering the same ground repeatedly at this point. Principle and practice diverge in significant ways here, and I think we've already gone over those enough now.

LS

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11-12-2014 04:27 PM  3 years agoPost 358
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Obviously they would never say that. That would be stupid and self defeating.
However, destroying their competition is not the primary goal of US corporations. Survival with a profit is.
Nonsense. He/she will only express compliance with the law, never a voluntary/willing permissive attitude towards competitors. Never.
Competition is thought of in the USA as a good thing. It keeps corporations price structure and quality structure in line. If they don't they die. With or without competition. Thats always good for consumers.
Healthy, strong, competition is good for consumers. It's never good for a competitor himself. Ever.

LS

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11-12-2014 04:32 PM  3 years agoPost 359
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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nice try dennis, but cooperating between two competing companies is an anti competitive practice called collusion and its illegal as hell.
Thats true.

But, that only pertains to pricing. Both on the wholesale level and the retail level.

Here is just a small example.

When I first started in the printing industry running printing presses as big as a house many years ago up in the Seattle area, they hired me because their competition up in Canada burned down. That company was our direct competition and considered a "sister" company because they were approx the same size as us before the fire. That company up in Canada asked our company to take on their printing contracts on the stipulation that those contracts got returned to them once they got up and running again. That involved millions of dollars in new business for my new employer. For the first three years we worked 10 to 12 hours a day, 6 days a week and sometimes 7 days a week for weeks on end. We made a lot of money in those days. They only way we could get a day off was to call in sick and go get drunk. Those were the days.

The company up in Canada got their printing contracts back once their business got up and running about 4 years later. But, they never returned to the size they were before the fire because we did so well satisfying those contracts from Canada that we brought in millions of dollars of new business. It was a win for us.

That was competition working together to preserve business. The only reason that Canadian company did not do so well once they got up and running again was because they were just a bit slow on getting up and running. That was their own fault and our gain. It was not a planned thing by my company because we signed and contract to work together.

That is just one small example of what I mean when companies or corporations work together.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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11-12-2014 04:34 PM  3 years agoPost 360
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Healthy, strong, competition is good for consumers.
Thats what I said.
It's never good for a competitor himself. Ever.
Explain ??????

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › The Republicans control the House and the Senate!
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