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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Old Raptor 30's flybarless kit, JR 4131 Servos OK
10-24-2014 01:29 PM  3 years agoPost 1
rossfox

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Ringgold, GA, USA

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I am getting back into RC choppers after an absence of 12 years. I started in 1982, and was heavily involved until 2002. Anyways, I have 3 Raptor 30's that all have JR equipment in them - best receiver - best servos at the time (4131's), best JR heading hold gyro, and a JR8103 radio. I am thinking of getting the flybarless conversion kit and a 3 axis gyro for these machines. MY QUESTIONS WOULD BE:

1. ANYONE HAVE COMMENTS REGARDING CONVERTING 12 YEAR OLD RAPTORS OVER TO FLYBARLESS, AND HOW THEY FLY.
2. ARE THE 4131 SERVOS FAST ENOUGH AND ACCURATE ENOUGH TO FLY A FLYBARLESS CHOPPER.
3. SHOULD I CONVERT MY 8103 TO 2.4 ghz? - IT IS CURRENTLY ON THE HAM BAND AND I NEVER HAD ANY ISSUES WITH IT. I UNDERSTAND THAT HORIZON CAN MAKE IT A 2.4 SYSTEM.
4. ANY OTHER THINGS I SHOULD KNOW.
5. WILL ANY HIGH QUALITY 3 AXIS GYRO WORK WELL, OR ARE THERE CERTAIN ONES THAT WOULD BE BEST FOR THESE RAPTOR 30'S

I have 3 very excellent shape Raptor 30's and plenty of brand new spare parts. All of my machines have many upgrades, and when I quit flying them, I would say they would perform as well or better than anything else at that time. I could do inverted and that kind of stuff very well at that time. Needless to say, the ability to do todays kind of flying wasn't there, and I will be pretty green in trying to learn it.

I know I could have read plenty of posts and maybe found these answers scattered about, but this post will be best if I can get some comments.
Thanks, Ross

Ross Fox

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10-24-2014 03:14 PM  3 years agoPost 2
artimus

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Buckley WA

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raptors are still flying these days....upgrade to a 50 for a lot more power. a new radio is a must.....you will be suprised how much better it flys with modern equipment. if you do go fbl put the money into a newer machine rather then up grade .Airframes are getting more affordable.

Fly Hard......Team Viagra

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10-24-2014 03:17 PM  3 years agoPost 3
bjacks

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Ft. Worth, Tex.

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Raptor
Some of the FLB systems will not work with the 4131(there good servos), some will, check and make sure it will work with non digital servos. Bobby

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10-24-2014 03:38 PM  3 years agoPost 4
V-22 Osprey

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Sidney, Maine

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Nothing wrong with what you have now. Get some new batteries and burn some fuel! Make sure your really have the fever again before you spend a bunch of cash.

Kelly

"220-221 whatever it takes"

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10-24-2014 05:42 PM  3 years agoPost 5
Jim Cimino

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NE Pennsylvania

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Fly it for a while and have some fun. If you want to convert it later to FBL, that is not a problem. If you decide to buy something, get a .50 size as they do fly better. As mentioned, if you want to convert your current helicopter, make sure that the unit will work with non-digital servos. There are some that will and some that will not. I have been converting some of my older machines to FBL and they fly great. All have digital servos though. I have been flying them on JR 10X and an XP9303 with a spectrum module, but am switching them over to a Graupner MC-20.
Have fun and fly what you brung! Don't get too worked up about the latest equipment. Yes these FBL systems do make the helicopter more stable, but certainly not necessary.

Team Synergy, Team Scorpion, No good deed goes unpunished

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10-24-2014 05:58 PM  3 years agoPost 6
AWittleWabbit

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O.C., CA

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Welcome back!
3. SHOULD I CONVERT MY 8103 TO 2.4 ghz?
Spektrum has a 2.4 module that replaces the frequency module in the back of the radio. Its user replaceable. There is nothing wrong with 72mhz unless you fly at rogue sites where people just turn on their 72mhz radios without checking. I'd say its probably safer now than ever since most people fly 2.4.

Personally, I'd just get a native 2.4 radio when you're ready. I had a 8103 and it was a great radio. I wouldn't sink any money into it today though. X9303s and x9503s are available for a song on the classifieds. If you go 2.4 using the module, you wont have model match.

Spektrum and JR parted ways sometime ago. Each has their own proprietary protocol now. If you're eyeing any Horizon Hobby bind and fly helis or planks you'll have to keep in mind they only work with DSM2 and DSMX radios. There are still JR radios with Spektrum around if that's a factor for you.

Heli-itis sufferer.

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10-24-2014 07:21 PM  3 years agoPost 7
Gizmoman

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Ottawa, Canada

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Hi Rossfox;
I had several flybarless GMP Legends and when the FBL units first appeared I was curious as to how well they worked. I've got a first generation (1999) Raptor 30 with the same radio gear you have. I modified a spare rotor head and used a Skookum 360 together with all the original radio gear and main blades. Before installing the Skookum 360, I test flew the modified rotor head just to prove it can be done without a FBL unit. Cyclic pitch was a bit touchy but manageable. With the FBL unit it felt just like the flybar rotorhead, but with more power due to no flybar drag.
If you've got spare head parts, it's quite easy to eliminate the flybar components and reuse some parts. In the pictures I've attached, you can see a white plastic sleeve pressed through the head where the flybar seesaw hub was fitted. The arms mounted above the blade grips on the main rotor hub are the flybar control levers from the washout assembly.
The washout drive pins are removed from the main rotor hub and a new swashplate follower made that's secured lower down on the main shaft.
As already mentioned, make sure the FBL unit works with analogue servos.
Fly what you've got and have fun.

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10-25-2014 12:04 AM  3 years agoPost 8
Mahu

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Panhandle , FL

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My Brother still flies his old Raptor, he has had it for way too many years to remember but at least 10.

Still can get some parts for them too, gotta love the Interweb.

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10-25-2014 12:42 AM  3 years agoPost 9
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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It will fly well with or without an FBL head. Thunder tiger makes one that bolts in and won't break the bank. The FBL head can be flown on any good tail gyro or even better with an FBL controller. I've converted two of mine with the TT upgrade. Both fly great. The unconverted 50SE flies great too. Used .50s are cheap and good. You can leave your 550 blades and tail on it and have an unboggable 30 size bird with a .50 or add a longer tail tube, an 8.5 gear ratio, motor mount, and 600's to it and have a true 50. Old Raptors just fly good. As to your radio gear, I have no idea.

Wayne

I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman

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10-25-2014 01:42 AM  3 years agoPost 10
EEngineer

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TX

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Wow, 4131s....still have some NIB somewhere.

I think they have only 88 oz-in or torque...not sure if that's enough.

FWIW

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10-25-2014 01:51 AM  3 years agoPost 11
Mahu

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Panhandle , FL

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Seems like if they flew it 12 yrs ago why would they not now?

If you decide to go FBL you may need digital servos to work with the FBL Controller.

Servos these days are great but I have a few older helis and plankers with some of the stock servos in them. They still fly great and never have had a problem with them. Old helicopters used standard servos or maybe if you had the $ you got some with higher torque or faster speeds but nothing compared to todays servos. After 12 years out of the hobby I am sure the older servos will be fine for a while. At least to see if you still like flying Helis.

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10-25-2014 01:54 AM  3 years agoPost 12
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Seems like if they flew it 12 yrs ago why would they not now?
I was under the impression that an FBL setup requires more servo torque since that heli has a flybar to augment servo torque.

The OP mentioned that he was going to convert from an FB head to an FBL head, did he not?

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10-25-2014 02:32 AM  3 years agoPost 13
Mahu

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Panhandle , FL

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I updated my statement to include if he decided to go FBL he might need new servos. You were correct about the FBL controllers needing more servo than the ones currently installed.

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10-25-2014 04:06 AM  3 years agoPost 14
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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My only regret in my rc heli past was the selling of my Raptor 30. I had the Raptor 50 too which I don't miss although the same in many ways. So why do I go down memory lane in public? Because a resurrection in the interest in the Raptor 30/50 is now happening with a new engine. It is a gasoline engine that fits in the frame and gives you good power I hear and LONG flight times. It is called the GO engine and is being talked about at length in the gasser heli section here.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-25-2014 04:32 AM  3 years agoPost 15
EEngineer

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TX

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I updated my statement to include if he decided to go FBL he might need new servos. You were correct about the FBL controllers needing more servo than the ones currently installed.
We're cool...

Had 4131s on my "Desire" 61cc pattern ship, a rare taildragger....4131s were the best analog servos made at the time.

In the same aircraft, I had switched from Futaba to JR, with the much higher torque of the 4131s vs. whatever Futaba servos I was using, I had to "dial back" the ATVs because of the control surface "blowback" with the lower torque servos....the 4131s, having higher torque, wouldn't allow the surfaces to be "blownback" at speed....could do "8-point" roles at head high altitude.

As a result, I've always been a fan of using the best servos I can get, and with a fixed wing aircraft, I can "feel" the difference because the aircraft will hold a more precise "line".

Never competed using digital servos, as they weren't available then...

FWIW

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10-25-2014 04:38 AM  3 years agoPost 16
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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On my Raptor 50 I installed all new Futaba Brushless servos that then were then new to the market. I did this to test them out before installing them in my new to me Miniature Aircraft Spectra gasser. The heli was a very different animal,,especially since it is a mechanical mix heli but still with a flybar.
I then installed them into my CCPM Spectra with flybar and it was great. I have since used the same servos in my Spectra and converted her to FBLS with a Bavarian Demon fbls system and she fly's like an absolute dream.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-25-2014 01:42 PM  3 years agoPost 17
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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Get new batts. TX and RX and fly. Then later replace everything.

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10-25-2014 02:03 PM  3 years agoPost 18
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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Get new batts. TX and RX and fly. Then later replace everything.
Yes I agree 100%. !!!!!

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-25-2014 04:09 PM  3 years agoPost 19
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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If you decide to upgrade your servos......
These are good and inexpensive.
I even use them for tail servos.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...26&I=LXTHR5&P=K

Wayne

I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman

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10-26-2014 09:08 AM  3 years agoPost 20
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Servo torque might be an issue with the conversion to FBL...

But it's your heli.

FWIW

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Old Raptor 30's flybarless kit, JR 4131 Servos OK
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