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HomeAircraftHelicopterRadio - JR DMSS › jr 11x
11-15-2014 06:29 PM  3 years agoPost 21
Clearance

rrVeteran

Rain Forest of Western Canada

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Re: Latency

Clarification maybe needed for the following JR statement describing one of the features of the XG11MV:

" with the included TG2.4XP module, you are able to enjoy all of the benefits that DMSS offers, including telemetry, and JR's patented Intelligent Output System (IOS) which automatically selects control signals that need to be transmitted at exactly the same time and delivers the data as on complete signal frame"

Does this have to do with latency or with the coordination of servos such as that needed between the two servos that are responsible for aileron control??

I can not use 72MHz receivers with the XG11MV since I don't have the TS-72J module.

Thanks, Flyinhelis. Now I have a better understanding of what is happening. I've always been a fan of JR.

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11-16-2014 02:03 AM  3 years agoPost 22
Flyinhelis

rrApprentice

USA - So. Cal. the OC

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The IOS sends the signal to each channel at the same time which results in the servos responding all at the same time, this is very important in CCPM configuration. The end result is no servo interactions and precision control.

As far as latency, DMSS protocol signal utilize fequentcy hopping and spread spectrum which results in a "direct control" feel, Addionally DMSS also is more resistance to fequentcy noise.

Better detail below from JR.

To understand why JR DMSS Spread Spectrum, let’s first explain in basic terms how JR DMSS differs from current non DMSS Spread Spectrum systems:

What is “Narrow Band” Spread Spectrum?
Most traditional 2.4GHz FH-SS (Frequency Hopping-Spread Spectrum) systems “frequency hop” over what is refererred to as a “narrow band” protocol, or signal.
Due to RF (radio frequency) interference or competing signals, there is often loss of data with these narrow band systems, simply due to their narrow “window” of receiving data sent from the transmitter.

JR’s New “Broad Band” DMSS Explained
JR’s all new DMSS 2.4GHz system features a JR Exclusive “broad band” frequency hopping Spread Spectrum technology, called DMSS (Dual Modulation Spread Spectrum).

Unlike the traditional narrow band systems where there is a greater risk of competing RF interference or signals affecting data reception, JR’s DMSS Broad Band system still receive the signal transmitted from the DMSS transmitter intact to the receiver thanks to the wider, DMSS “window”. This wider “window” of data reception works to provide a more constant, precise, and most importantly, reliable control.

JR’s exclusive DMSS protocol combines the best features found in other current Spread Spectrum systems, with the additional benefit of DMSS wide band transmission and FHSS channel hops that literally jump past harmful interference. JR DMSS also hops over a larger number of channels than many current Spread Spectrum systems, resulting in further gains in reliability and enhanced signal reception.

JR DMSS is also much less likely to suffer critical data loss due to the broader band “window” nature of the DMSS signal protocol.

Maximized Multi Channel Update Matching
JR’s new DMSS systems offer a unique channel matching update system that is ideal for Airplane modelers using multi channel wing setups, or for Helicopter pilots utilizing CCPM Swashplate mixing.

When a multi servo wing type or CCPM Swashplate mixing is selected, JR’s DMSS system automatically (yes, automatically) reassigns the channel update priority for each channel in use for these functions so that each channel receives its information simultaneously for exact control.

Team JR Americas

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11-16-2014 04:10 AM  3 years agoPost 23
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Nice post ,,but is any of this noticeable over say my JR 9303x 2.4? I fly gassers and never had a hiccup in 7 years.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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11-16-2014 05:32 AM  3 years agoPost 24
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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I'm assuming the JR 12X is being discontinued because it's limited to DSM2/DSMX...

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11-16-2014 05:34 AM  3 years agoPost 25
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Here's a vid link for an simplistic explanation of how SS works...

Watch at YouTube

FWIW

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11-16-2014 05:38 AM  3 years agoPost 26
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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I'm assuming the JR 12X is being discontinued because it's limited to DSM2/DSMX...
I would like to hear what is inferior about DSMX compared to the other new options? I don't want to stick up for DSMX but I have never had a problem with my gassers with a magneto firing a spark plug at many thousands of volts surrounded by a conductive carbon frame with no problems,,and 99% of the time I was running DSM2 NOT DSMX.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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11-16-2014 05:45 AM  3 years agoPost 27
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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View the above....

DSM/DSM2 has ~80 freq. "slots"....DSMX a few more....once all "slots" are "occupied"...one cannot bind at startup.

SS "bit-chips" and uses the 2.4-2.485 GHz spectrum in a different manner.

FWIW

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11-16-2014 09:21 PM  3 years agoPost 28
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Thanks for posting that Engineer. That is very interesting.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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11-17-2014 02:19 AM  3 years agoPost 29
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Anytime

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11-18-2014 07:22 PM  3 years agoPost 30
Four Stroker

rrElite Veteran

Atlanta

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If you want real information and not manufacturer marketing BS, then this is the actual FCC test site:

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/repo...nericSearch.cfm

Applicant Name: Futaba, Horizon Hobby, Japan Remote Control, Sanwa, etc.

Dates: last year or so.

If you have the FCC ID on the back of the transmitter, then put that in the Grantee Code, Product Code boxes.

Download the test report or any other info you want to look at. There is essentially no difference among Futaba FASST/est, DMSS, DSMX. The reason Spektrum crashes all the time is the software going bonkers.

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11-18-2014 07:29 PM  3 years agoPost 31
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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There is essentially no difference among Futaba FASST/est, DMSS, DSMX. The reason Spektrum crashes all the time is the software going bonkers.
So now thee is no difference between them? Also I didn't know Spectrum crashes...

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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11-18-2014 08:00 PM  3 years agoPost 32
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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Well you can always make your buying decisions based on the marketing material. That's what capitalism is all about. Maybe spektrum flyers just like to yell "I ain't got it!" at my field.

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11-18-2014 08:18 PM  3 years agoPost 33
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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Maybe spektrum flyers just like to yell "I ain't got it!" at my field.
LOL,, well now you mention it I have heard that yell too. But not very often. I have an old JR X9303 2.4 DSM2 and I have never had any problems. You mention marketing etc,,you maybe correct. I don't know enough about electronics ,,but I do know when they don't work lol. Thanks for your posts,,very interesting.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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11-18-2014 08:26 PM  3 years agoPost 34
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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Spektrum is the Cadillac of radios !

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11-18-2014 08:46 PM  3 years agoPost 35
goodhunting

rrVeteran

Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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Well I owned the Jr9303 also .... BUT that radio was made by Jr and not Spektrum...

I don't want to start a war here just saying....

Gh

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11-18-2014 09:24 PM  3 years agoPost 36
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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my 9303x says "Made in Japan". Not Malaysia where I think the later ones like the 9503 was made. But I hear they are excellent too.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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11-18-2014 10:28 PM  3 years agoPost 37
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Problems.....??!!??
I have flown nothing but JR since the early 90's when I got into heli's.. I can truthfully say that I had NO PROBLEMS that were not my own fault...
When switching from AM, to FM, then to PCM, each had a learning curve... and if you made it through without busting something up, you had done good!!! With that said though, I did break up a couple of machines due to radio failures... again, mostly caused by me not placing something correctly....
Jump ahead to 2.4....Best thing since sliced bread!! But, still there was a learning curve.. I think the biggest problem was everyone still flying with 4.8volt set ups that worked just fine for years with PCM!!! I do remember watching one of my 450's just go crazy and go sliding across the floor of the indoor site that we used to fly in...that is when I figured out that 4.8 was not up to the challenge....
Jump ahead again..in 2007, I was still flying 72, and when I wanted to go to the NATS, for scale flying, there were 2 designated channels that would be used there... the following year, you could still fly 72, BUT 2.4 had been working, I guess on DSM at the time...so you still had both flying... and being at IRCHA with a bunch of pilots, a problem was noted when the flight stations were full...interference on 2.4, and long waits to bind...Jump again to DSM2...helped with the crowded problem, and that is what I put into my scale heli's..Not that I had had a problem, but wanted to stay on top of things, and could not see chancing one of my scale heli's being piled up because I didn't move them up to the latest and greatest... again, never had an issue...then DSMX, and it was only suggested that you move to that if you fly in a very busy enviroment (IRCHA with a thousand registered pilots), so I up graded to the DSMX.. I think that same explanation is still on the Horizon site!!!
Staying with JR and trusting them for so many years, just made it a no brainer for me to go ahead and stay with them with the DMSS systems... having flown both now, there are little things that I really like about the new JR equipment, and am glad that I made the switch..
Is there a BIG difference???... I don't know.. I am not an electronics wizard.. I like to stay up with the newest and this seems to be it... so it is going to be in ALL of my heli's and planes by Spring, and we will move on from there... to me it has been an AMAZING journey, and I loved ever minute of it.. even with the learning curves..
Is one better then the other???? I know what I like, and I do like the JR systems, and especially how they program.. maybe easy for me only because of using them so long.. but when someone tells me that they have a problem programming a JR radio, I just have to ask what they need help with!!!!
Fly what you like, and what your comfortable with... this is a hobby and it is supposed to be fun... so get out there and FLY and have fun...
Compared to what I started RC with, there just isn't a bad radio out there anymore..(well maybe, but I don't know about it!!)

Good Luck,
Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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11-19-2014 12:16 AM  3 years agoPost 38
Four Stroker

rrElite Veteran

Atlanta

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I had a Futaba 12Z for 7 years - no problems.

I now have a JR XG14E for 1 year - no problems.

At the flying fields that I have been at in the last 10 years, the only 2.4 GHz radios that I have seen fall out of the sky were Spektrum. This happens a lot. These crashes are too close for range problems. I ASSUME they are all software crashes! Software/Firmware is the most unreliable part of a software defined radio - like our RC.

A guy with an AR8000 RX and one satellite crashed an old XCell at about 100 feet distance a few weeks ago. The receiver antenna had fallen. We range checked it FULL POWER after the crash. About 100 feet. What the hell is the satellite for ? Another guy bought a DX18 and bound a flying plane to it to try it out. Flew into the ground with no control. Another guy upgraded from a DX7 to DX8. Bound two existing flying helicopters to it. Both of them went out of control and crashed. Spektrum replaced the RF module, antenna, and battery (?) AND replaced the old DSM2 receivers with new DSMX. Backward compatible ?

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11-19-2014 04:33 AM  3 years agoPost 39
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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I do have a DX6i [older one] and it has been fine as well as my first generation JR 9303 x 2.4. But what you have said rings a bell. I was very temped to buy a Spectrum 9 channel but for some reason have not. It seems very nice. Not as nice as my JR. I could care less about some English Chick talking to be ,,[I get that enough at home] but would like telemetry just for amount of mah used or an alarm when so much is used. I have heard a rumor that offerings this next year from JR will change. It is interesting as it confirms with what you said here in your post.
Download the test report or any other info you want to look at. There is essentially no difference among Futaba FASST/est, DMSS, DSMX. The reason Spektrum crashes all the time is the software going bonkers.
I will wait and see what happens,,,,,,,,,,,

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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11-19-2014 04:43 AM  3 years agoPost 40
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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It's all in the DSP programming of the WiFi radio IC...

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