RunRyder RC
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 2272 views TOPIC CLOSED
HomeScaleAircraftHelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Why some have to cheat to win!
08-19-2014 03:32 PM  4 years agoPost 21
deanguy

rrVeteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well there you have it folks.. And being its a Vario kit, It would have to come from Joe.. Bummer. Who got 2nd place who should have gotten first?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-19-2014 03:53 PM  4 years agoPost 22
Dave Willis

rrVeteran

Sevierville, TN USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

"Here in Lies the RUB"?
Must be a Northern Thing <lol>

Dave

Futaba AMA 6679 IRCHA 675 VHA 11

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-19-2014 03:58 PM  4 years agoPost 23
deanguy

rrVeteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Haha! I'm a native Texan!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-20-2014 04:37 PM  3 years agoPost 24
Grimracer

rrVeteran

Eau Claire WI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Trying to wrap my head around the importance of being the “owner” of the model. Seems to me this is a contest pitting building and flying skill against building and flying skill.. not “out spending” or ownership contest.
I do want to say however as the rules are currently written Marc has every right to be concerned.
Having said this…
Im trying to think of one “really good” scenario that would cause “ownership” to outweigh building and flying skill.
IF’ the builder could afford the fancy one off head.. or the investor, what “really” is the difference.
The intent is not a game of spending although we know that “money” plays a large role. The intent is to pit building and flying skills.
I would think.. that to make this “game” easer, less stressful and maybe even increase attendance.. one might review and maybe even remove the “owner” of the model as a rule..
I know we have to “declare” we are the builder and its obvious we are the flyer.. but declare we are the owner.. what does that add?

Open friendly discussions ONLY please.

Grimracer

Michael J Zaborowski

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-20-2014 05:12 PM  3 years agoPost 25
marc28

rrVeteran

new york

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Seems to me this is a contest pitting building and flying skill against building and flying skill.. not “out spending” or ownership contest.
Mike, I agree with the above comment. The 518 rules have been in place for several years and it's time that they be reviewed and amended.

The rules are what they are at this time and they must be honored to maintain integrity. What has created concern, is the fact that Bob Harris is well aware of what the rules are and used deception. This is not the first time and he has been called out in the past regarding his attempt to circumvent or out right deceive.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-20-2014 05:31 PM  3 years agoPost 26
Grimracer

rrVeteran

Eau Claire WI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Agree and not defending what happened.

Just trying to understand the need and how that protects or make the 518 class "better' or "grow"..

I personally could not "take that win" the way the rules are setup now.. but that’s just me.

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-20-2014 06:37 PM  3 years agoPost 27
heliwreckr

rrApprentice

Battle Creek, Taxigan

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The 518 rules have been in place for several years and it's time that they be reviewed and amended.
seems kinda like dejavu all over again
paul

It's not crashed 'til it hits the ground

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-20-2014 06:48 PM  3 years agoPost 28
Grimracer

rrVeteran

Eau Claire WI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I am new to "scale heli contests" please elaborate if you would.
I don’t want to come into this with a bunch of “Old” bad blood being dragged around the floor. That’s no fun and lets face it.. we are WAY too small a group to have a large cloud like this over us.
I can only assume based on your comment that this was (or could have) been brought up in the past.
Was this “must be the owner” added not all that long ago or was it talked about under some of the same circumstances we see here.
Either way.. Im still asking why we feel or not that its important.

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-20-2014 07:02 PM  3 years agoPost 29
Frank Bostwick

rrElite Veteran

Cincinnati Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Grim, you have a good head on those shoulders and seem to have it right here. BTW congrats on the win this year.

RIP ROMAN

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-20-2014 07:14 PM  3 years agoPost 30
heliwreckr

rrApprentice

Battle Creek, Taxigan

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

My apologies, Grim. I was not referring to the 'owner of the model' rule. Several years ago, when AMA was considering dropping Scale Helicopter because of a lack of participation, there were proposals for rule changes to increase interest in competition. The individuals that took the initiative present those changes to the rules committee, were accused of trying to make it easier for them to win contests and take over the world.

It's not crashed 'til it hits the ground

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-20-2014 07:42 PM  3 years agoPost 31
Grimracer

rrVeteran

Eau Claire WI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Frank.. thanks for the kind words.. I had lots of fun and hope to return..

Heliw,

No problems.. I just did not understand.. To say Im new to scale helis is somewhat true but new to competition.. I have YEARS..lol

I can see full well how that could have been miss conceived by those never happy to just be at the event, learn and make friends but rather feel they “SHOULD” have won.. (Marc.. Im not talking about your situation here dude.. I am behind you 100%)

I say.. no matter how hard it is to do you have to be willing to “risk” pissing a few people off for the better of all. When it comes to contests you have ONE winner.. everybody else has LOST.. some conclude with the intent to do better next time and other hell bent on making excuses.
I choose friendships..

I CDed one of the largest RC boat races in the country.. it was not easy but we got thought it with our knickers up!
If the current rule states you must own the model then the call MUST be made according to that rule. The CD needs to remember (as hard as this is) that he or she is no more than the holder and gavel of the rules and not the creator (at least not alone if we vote).

On we go

Michael J Zaborowski

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-20-2014 07:52 PM  3 years agoPost 32
deanguy

rrVeteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The rules were never the problem. It was getting people to actually follow them correctly which is the same situation here. Grim, another thing was everybody wanted to build multi bladed machines back then but they couldn't fly them.. the "box" you flew was too hard so the rules were changed. Now with gyro tech that's no longer an issue.. the bonus for a multi should probably be removed as well.. the "wallet" modeling and turbines coming around played a big part, but the novelty has kinda of wore off and most people like electric better now anyway. I don't remember the owner rule at all.. looks like that was added in 2012 according to the AMA doc.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-20-2014 08:06 PM  3 years agoPost 33
deanguy

rrVeteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Here's another question.. if you were CD in this case, how would you have handled it? The pilot declares its his.. signs whatever stating so.. just like the builder rule. What do you do? Call him a liar? Seems to me his hands are tied.. especially if the real owner showed up after the fact. I think it's a bad rule that's very tough to enforce. BOM is tough enough but at least that can be documented with pics of you building it

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-20-2014 08:41 PM  3 years agoPost 34
Grimracer

rrVeteran

Eau Claire WI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Dean...

If the pilot declared and signed he the sole builder and owner then the CD has to accept that. (thats how we currently prove this)..
Again an argument to remove the owner of the model.. (what we going to do, make them prove receipts.. Silly right..)
Unless the pilot admits it himself to the CD, as he did, as the “declared owner” of the model that he does not own the model then the rest is hearsay.
He sleeps in his own shame… BY HIMSELF… alone..
A cheaters worse enemy is himself.

Regarding what happen this year.. Only a few people know the facts. I am not going to drag anybody’s nuts across the backtop.. besides that really hurts…lol Its time to review the rules and make changes if we feel they are needed.
I do agree on the mutil blade head deal.. Its like extra bonus points for a multi-engine plane.. (with electric it’s a moot point). The idea was awarding for keeping them both lit!

on we go..

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-21-2014 12:26 AM  3 years agoPost 35
deanguy

rrVeteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Out of curiosity.. I just read on another thread that this situation was addressed and resolved by AMA officials during the event.. So why was this ever posted? I didn't attend and haven't competed there since 2005 so I'm out of the loop

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-21-2014 01:30 AM  3 years agoPost 36
Carey Shurley

rrElite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If the pilot declared and signed he the sole builder and owner then the CD has to accept that. (thats how we currently prove this)..
correct. AMA has a "protest" process in place. Any other pilot competing in that event could file a protest against anybody else in that event over an alleged rules violation of some sort

the CD then has the responsibility to rule on any protest and has the authority to apply a solution on the spot (including one that changes the results)

if the CD witnesses a rules violation they can also take direct action

As a part of the official contest report to the AMA for the sanction, the CD must report any protests/rules violations and how they were resolved

Pilots can appeal any event ruling by the CD directly to the AMA

if no protest is lodged at the event, then as far as the event goes, there were no issues.

Proprietor - Gas Powered Helicopters

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-21-2014 02:07 AM  3 years agoPost 37
deanguy

rrVeteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Good point Carey.. I think this has run its course and could be closed now.. Hope 2015 scale nationals are a great event.. I really like the new team scale concept and don't have time to build anymore so this gives people with that issue the opportunity to still fly!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-21-2014 03:16 AM  3 years agoPost 38
darrelluh1b

rrApprentice

Dalton Ga

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I was the CD for the Scale nats. The protest was heard and no action was taken because of not being able to prove ownership. I do not know the intent of the rule 4.3( The contestant must be the original owner and the one who prepared the helicopter for flight,regardless of the scope of the work required to finish the helicopter.) We are a small group and this cloud that hangs over this event is sad.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-21-2014 03:39 AM  3 years agoPost 39
deanguy

rrVeteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This ain't no cloud.. this is a rainbow compared to 15 years ago! Haha.. Carry on Darrell you do a great job to promote scale and it's grown tremendously! I still bet Mark could close this and nobody would notice it gone or care

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 2272 views TOPIC CLOSED
HomeScaleAircraftHelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Why some have to cheat to win!
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 14  Topic Subscribe

Saturday, August 18 - 5:15 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online