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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Lawsuits filed challenging stricter FAA Rules
08-24-2014 03:29 AM  4 years agoPost 221
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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I could answer what a no bar machine does during autos in relation to pitch, but I'll let Unclejane explain it first since he was asked.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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08-24-2014 03:51 AM  4 years agoPost 222
BobOD

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New York- USA

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My first reaction is that I don't know a whole lot about FPV and I see stuff happening that I can understand would get the attention of the FAA. That's my perspective that I'm offering you.
Your response is to say I'm not an expert, which is fine. I'm not. That doesn't help the situation though.
More important is to answer the question, is it safe to have an out of control Quad hovering at 2000ft within a few miles of an international airport as well as a military airfield? (I didn't plan that BTW, this was just one of the 1st videos I spotted in a simple youtube search. LOL)

As for the analogy of the planker, all the stuff I've seen in RC doesn't raise the same concerns....especially as long as people follow the direction of the AMA. When too many start to stray from that, then perhaps it's time for more rules. There are plenty already. Where I'm from, there are local laws prohibiting RC flight all over for 30+ years. And we have been enjoying the hobby peacefully.
If that makes me a pacifist in your mind AirWolfRC, that's fine but this also does not help the situation.

Team POP Secret

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08-24-2014 04:06 AM  4 years agoPost 223
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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My first reaction is that I don't know a whole lot about FPV and I see stuff happening that I can understand would get the attention of the FAA. That's my perspective that I'm offering you.
Your response is to say I'm not an expert, which is fine. I'm not. That doesn't help the situation though.
I don't quite think that would be your reaction to the anti-helicopter planker, tho, which is what I was really asking you. Obviously, you're an experienced heli pilot so I doubt you'd defer in that same way. Instead, I suspect you'd use the knowledge and experience you have to evaluate the planker's claim "helis are dangerous and should be banned!!" and correct any misinformation in his presentation, wouldn't you?

I think you would, and I hope you would. You'd say something like "one youtube video doesn't tell the whole story about helis, this is just one incident" and you'd be perfectly right.

Well, you should be able to see where I'm going with this. Obviously, one or two nutcases on You Tube aren't representative of FPV as a whole, or representative of the reliability of our video links, and so forth.
More important is to answer the question, is it safe to have an out of control Quad hovering at 2000ft within a few miles of an international airport as well as a military airfield? (I didn't plan that BTW, this was just one of the 1st videos I spotted in a simple youtube search. LOL)
This question is loaded, designed to make it look like the really hazardous element here is that the aircraft is a quad, specifically. But in truth, any aircraft out of control for any reason, could be hazard in this situation. It first has to be shown that quads are more dangerous than other aircraft types before this question is really valid. That remains to be done.
As for the analogy of the planker, all the stuff I've seen in RC doesn't raise the same concerns....especially as long as people follow the direction of the AMA. When too many start to stray from that, then perhaps it's time for more rules. There are plenty already. Where I'm from, there are local laws prohibiting RC flight all over for 30+ years. And we have been enjoying the hobby peacefully.
And that would be approximately my same perspective of FPV as a practitioner of it. I would say virtually the same thing based on my personal experience with FPV. It's not a standout in the hobby in this regard at all.

LS

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08-24-2014 04:35 AM  4 years agoPost 224
BobOD

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New York- USA

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You make a pretty good point. It comes down to frequency and severity.
But here's the thing. If too many injuries or even near misses start to occur with rc helicopters, then I have to agree, it should be looked at. Preferably by private organization to see if it can be reigned in. If not, then it's time for stricter measures. In fact, this has been looked at and thus far has not inspired the FAA to regulate.
So, you're right. I treat them both the same. If there is concern, they should be looked at. Now with FPV, it does seem the FAA is more interested in regulating it then they ever have been with model RC prior to FPV. The reason is simple...higher frequency and higher severity. That is how it appears to me, and I imagine the same to them.
Quite simply, it appears that there are many more instances of much less safe acts happening with FPV and autonomous activity. If you are not doing so, that's great...but unfortunately this matters not.

Team POP Secret

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08-24-2014 04:51 AM  4 years agoPost 225
HREFAB

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Long Island NY

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revmix, you're another turnip. NO, I'm NOT a 'self made moderator". I'm simply a member who wants to LEARN things and GET INFORMED. Guys like YOU stir the pot for no reason other than to hear yourself blow. This petty BS is what ruins forums and makes people leave. Playing Devil's Advocate is fine and good, but when you actually BECOME the Devil, no one wants to listen anymore.

It's a FORUM. If YOU moles can crawl out of your holes to spew your antagonistic crap, I can state MY opinion. At least I'm trying to have a discussion, not compare the size of my junk.

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08-24-2014 09:47 AM  4 years agoPost 226
aceisback

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Terre Haute, IN

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If there is concern, they should be looked at. Now with FPV, it does seem the FAA is more interested in regulating it then they ever have been with model RC prior to FPV.
This is what some of us have tried to say. The introduction of FPV put the hobby on the map. Unfortunately people have been injured and or killed by RC helis and planes, yet when this has happened, only a couple of incidents actually made it on the news and was only news for a day or so in most cases. Most incidents you never hear about except here on the forums, yet we hear about drones in the news almost every other day. I also don't think we will ever get the term "drone" away from the general public thanks to the media.

Before FPV exploded on the scene, people were posting videos with keychain cameras mounted to their RC toys, yet everyone thought that was cool as it was all done LOS and no one cared. Now we have FPV and better flight controllers which people are using to escape the boundaries of RC modelling and creating a whole new perception of the hobby to the general public and regulating bodies. People cite privacy concerns as one reason to dislike drones as they like to call them. Privacy was never an issue with just plain RC modelling. This new venture has opened up a whole new can of worms and has actually given the FAA something to use against us. We cannot hide from the fact that they see the hobby in a different light than most of us whether we agree or disagree with them or each other. The FAA has enough recent video proof and activity to justify their actions whether we like it or not. I don't see how we as a hobby community will ever be able to police those who choose to act outside the boundaries of the hobby, and I don't think we can convince the FAA otherwise. People are flying these multirotors in places that we would not even consider flying an RC heli with or without FPV, and that doesn't help the situation.

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08-24-2014 12:28 PM  4 years agoPost 227
raholek

rrVeteran

Zachary, Louisiana

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FPV
UJ,
Maybe try your target audience and you won't receive such hostility. Just Maybe there is a place where FPV experts can share without ridicule.

www.redstickrc.net ama#: 968515

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08-24-2014 12:33 PM  4 years agoPost 228
revmix

rrKey Veteran

NJ

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It's a FORUM
just stick to the topic

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08-24-2014 04:07 PM  4 years agoPost 229
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Now with FPV, it does seem the FAA is more interested in regulating it then they ever have been with model RC prior to FPV. The reason is simple...higher frequency and higher severity. That is how it appears to me, and I imagine the same to them.
I actually don't think that's right. I think your analysis is good, but what I think is really at the bottom of it is bad information. Bad info coming from the public, the media, and much much worse, bad info coming from within the hobby.

The FAA is clueless generally about modeling and especially clueless about FPV. They only know what the media, the public, and those of us actually in the hobby are telling them about it. That's really why I think they've culled out FPV along with commercial ops and put a bullseye on it.
Quite simply, it appears that there are many more instances of much less safe acts happening with FPV and autonomous activity. If you are not doing so, that's great...but unfortunately this matters not.
I think the rate is much lower than that - I think there are vastly more guys who are flying FPV safely and using good equipment and techniques than there are nutcases. I personally fly FPV all the time with no problems; I've not had a single incident except for the crash of my trex 700 last year when it threw a link in the head.

So I think it's first and foremost a PR and information problem. We need to do two things:
- stop the bad information flow, especially from within the hobby. Guys like TMoore who are clueless about FPV and yet do nothing but spread nonsense about how dangerous it is need to be countered, especially in public. They won't shutup and they won't educate themselves. so we just have to counter them when we can.
- start the flow of good information. Instead of the clueless "dem FPVers iz dangerous!!!" from both outside and inside the hobby, we need to tell the public the truth about FPV. Namely, that it's like anything else in the hobby - there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. It takes time and effort to learn the right way, but once you learn the right way, it's just as safe and enjoyable as any other activity within our hobby.

Basically we need to get our internal stories straight on the technologies in our hobby first, then we can present the real story to the public and the FAA. Cut off the bad info and turn on the good.

That's really where we need to start. Anything else is just symptomatic treatment, in my view.

LS

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08-24-2014 04:19 PM  4 years agoPost 230
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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UJ you need to leave me out of your posts.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-24-2014 04:21 PM  4 years agoPost 231
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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I don't see how we as a hobby community will ever be able to police those who choose to act outside the boundaries of the hobby, and I don't think we can convince the FAA otherwise. People are flying these multirotors in places that we would not even consider flying an RC heli with or without FPV, and that doesn't help the situation.
I just gave you the solution in my response to Bob:
- stop blaming FPV and multirotors. FPV and MR technology aren't the problem.
- go learn about FPV and MR's. Learn the right way to fly both.
- present this right way that you learn by putting in the time and effort required to learn that to the public and the FAA.

Stop saying "FPV iz dangerouss and dem keeids are gonna sink us all!!" and stop calling MR's "drones".

Learn and tell the truth.

Simple. It's not easy and you'll have to use your noodle a little more than you do now, but it's worth it in the end. You'll know more about our hobby and its technologies and you'll be transmitting that to the public and the FAA instead of the nonsense you're transmitting now.

It's a win-win...

LS

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08-24-2014 04:24 PM  4 years agoPost 232
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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UJ you need to leave me out of your posts.
And you need to learn something about FPV before you try to talk intelligently about it.
I thought I was on your ignore list, what happened?

LS

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08-24-2014 04:27 PM  4 years agoPost 233
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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You should learn LOS skills so you won't be a danger to the public and your fellow modelers.

I don't have anyone on my ignore list.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-24-2014 04:30 PM  4 years agoPost 234
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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I don't have anyone on my ignore list.
Give it a try if you can't stand the heat. It's easy to use and very effective; you won't have to read anything I write once you turn it on.

LS

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08-24-2014 04:36 PM  4 years agoPost 235
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Follow your own advice.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-24-2014 04:48 PM  4 years agoPost 236
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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Follow your own advice.
You're one of the guys spreading nonsense and lies so I kind of have to keep track of what you say. I don't need an ignore switch when someone criticizes me.

But it may work for you since you seem to be in some pain, just sayin'.

LS

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08-24-2014 05:07 PM  4 years agoPost 237
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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Maybe try your target audience and you won't receive such hostility.
I'm unconcerned with sensitivity to criticism, that's your problem not mine. Unfortunately, the target audience is here and helping the media, the public and the FAA out with misinformation and lies about FPV and other technologies within our hobby. So unfortunately for you, that's kind of why I'm here.
Just Maybe there is a place where FPV experts can share without ridicule.
You can turn off the heat by simply stopping with the misinformation. Stop spreading lies about FPV being dangerous, stop calling multirotors "drones" and stop blaming our technologies for what are user-level problems.

Go learn about these technologies and how to use them.

Simple. That will quiet me down and turn down the heat. If all else fails, put me on ignore. Mark did his usual fantastic job with the ignore switch that he does with the rest of the site. It's there for you if you can't handle criticism and being told that you're wrong - use it.

Otherwise.....

LS

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08-24-2014 05:15 PM  4 years agoPost 238
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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You're one of the guys spreading nonsense and lies so I kind of have to keep track of what you say. I don't need an ignore switch when someone criticizes me.
But it may work for you since you seem to be in some pain, just sayin'.
Check your own posts pal. You're a Tsunami of misinformation. I loved the post you were put up telling the dude he needed an end mill to open up a blade bushing. Classic nonsense. Have you ever worked in a machine shop?

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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08-24-2014 05:16 PM  4 years agoPost 239
revmix

rrKey Veteran

NJ

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calling multirotors "drones"
according to OP; "a business owner that is in the business of
Drones."

https://www.facebook.com/MikeFortinRC

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08-24-2014 05:25 PM  4 years agoPost 240
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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according to OP; "a business owner that is in the business of [/B]Drones[B].
Yeah, I know.... But, OTOH, to give credit where it's due.... Mike F. does way way more AP and has way more experience with things that do approach the definition of what you might call "drones" than I do. It's his business after all....

I'm thinking more of the typical portrayal of a kid with a Phantom playing around in a park somewhere. That's definitely a kid with a Phantom and not a "drone" operator and I feel confident in countering that portrayal myself.

That's a major contribution to our PR problem that's coming from within the hobby. But, truth is, if we wanted to really tussle with the public or the FAA on what a "drone" really is, I'd definitely defer, and be more comfortable with Mike F or Chris Bergen or someone like them who are professionals conducting something like that. That's their business and what they do for a living....

LS

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Lawsuits filed challenging stricter FAA Rules
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