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07-03-2014 03:37 AM  6 years ago
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tomtek

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ga

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tm1000 worth it
Is the TM1000 worth it to use for keeping track of the voltage while flying? I would like to be able to fly until the voltage reaches a minimum level to avoid harming the lipo cells. Right now I fly for seven minutes and when I land my cells are down to about 3.8v. I would like to fly as long as possible without harming the cells. Will the tm1000 let me do this by the voltage reading only?
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07-03-2014 04:53 AM  6 years ago
pctomlin

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Texas

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Don't know a lot about the Spektrum telemetry modules, but when I was looking into them the 1000 is like a park flyer type range and the 1100 is a full range unit. Could make a difference depending on what heli you put it on.
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07-03-2014 04:56 AM  6 years ago
rcflyerheli

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Granbury, TX USA

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I use mine to give me a warning through my TX. I only have one, so I have to time my others. IMHO, once you get a reliable time that gives you the 3.8 v/cell, you are really just about as accurate as when using the TM 1000.

The only possible exception to timing your flight is if you have a cell that is going bad. The TM 1000 might give you warning in that case.
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07-03-2014 02:21 PM  6 years ago
Rudy

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Houston TX/Bend OR

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Watching voltage is not the way to track battery usage. You can do a couple of hard moves and you can draw down the voltage and give a false low reading.

To truly check the status of your battery in flight you need to see the amount of mAh used.

At this time Spektrum's does not have a unit for that.

There are a couple of third party options that may work. Some guy in Germany makes a interface that I believe works with Spektrum. Then there is the Jlog that may interface with Spektrum.
Rudy Ackerman Houston TX/Bend OR
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07-03-2014 03:13 PM  6 years ago
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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https://rc.runryder.com/t768829p1/

It is as worthy as your setup and programming.
~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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07-03-2014 04:18 PM  6 years ago
Rudy

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Yep and I have a Jeti DS 16 Rudy Ackerman Houston TX/Bend OR
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07-03-2014 08:54 PM  6 years ago
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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but when I was looking into them the 1000 is like a park flyer type range and the 1100 is a full range unit.
It's the other way around. The TM1000 is the full range unit.

- John
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07-03-2014 10:21 PM  6 years ago
HeimD

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At this time Spektrum's does not have a unit for that.
And, Spektrum really needs to get off their fat ass about that. They have a huge market share and tons of people would buy a 100% compatible plug-in accurate mA/current telemetry device to track battery capacity in flight. The only other options now are to cobble something together with aftermarket stuff and a lot of soldering. Come on, Spektrum.
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07-04-2014 01:59 AM  6 years ago
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Yes, voltage is going to varying with load as in climbing, and 3D flight maneuvers. It is an approximation of the cell voltage not an exact science. As the average voltage approaches my lower limit, I land.

I would never trust Mahr readings, my view is that those numbers represent the comic pages. I don't trust them and don't pay much attention to them. Just rough approximations... how does the mahr charge exceed the battery size? I have telemetry and trust the under load readings more than any bench voltage reading... I have seen large rebounds.

Mostly, I try to use my batteries well within the limits and keep the temperature down.

I think the single biggest destroyer of batteries is leaving them in a hot car on a sunny day. I would worry more about that than anything.
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07-04-2014 02:07 AM  6 years ago
Retired2011

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Lee's Summit, MO

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I think the single biggest destroyer of batteries is leaving them in a hot car on a sunny day. I would worry more about that than anything.
Right up there with over-discharging them.
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07-04-2014 02:43 AM  6 years ago
Rudy

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Houston TX/Bend OR

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I would never trust Mahr readings,
Are you saying that you would not trust a device that reported the mAh used out of a battery pack while in use?
Rudy Ackerman Houston TX/Bend OR
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07-04-2014 02:56 AM  6 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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Are you saying that you would not trust a device that reported the mAh used out of a battery pack while in use?
Sure sounds like it because he doesn't even trust the mA put back in by his charger. He must have a crappy charger because my iCharger 306B is spot on.
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07-04-2014 11:17 AM  6 years ago
Heli_Splatter

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Funny... I just happen to have; an iCharger 306B, and a iCharger 3010B and another four port charger in the truck.

How can you possibly know that the charger is "spot on"? Measuring electricity put into the battery is like herding cats. It is not like measuring a piece of wood or a gallon of water. There are all kinds of losses encountered in charging batteries.

Really rather than argue... All I am trying to say is that charging a battery is somewhat like filling a leaky pot. I do not trust the mahr numbers generated by the charger enough to make it a science upon which I will base a gas gauge type of instrument. It is not as simple as accounting for; put 3000 in, 3000 are available to take out (assume a 5Ahr bat).
Sure sounds like it because he doesn't even trust the mA put back in by his charger. He must have a crappy charger because my iCharger 306B is spot on.
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07-04-2014 12:44 PM  6 years ago
ChristianM

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Oslo, Norway

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I have the TM1000 on my X5 to report pack voltage. It logs it several time pr second and any spike below the alarm set point (3.7 V/cell) will trigger the alarm. If I land after the first instance of the alarm then I have used less than 50% of the capacity. So reading the voltage with the TM1000 directly does not work well and is quite frankly annoying.

I also have a Castle Creations ESC with a low voltage alarm which work really well. I set it to 3.7 V/cell and to oscillate the motor power when it triggers. It has some sort of averaging algorithm so it rejects the voltage drop peaks. With this setup I can forget about the timer and fly until I hear/see the power oscillate and land thereafter. I typically have 22%-25% capacity left in the battery with that setting. Love this feature

I prefer this type of set-up rather than mAh telemetry sensor since the batteries will lose capacity over time and you risk over taxing your battery if you are not careful. Not a big problem if you only have a few batteries with the same number of cycles and age but becomes a hazell when you have many batteries with different number of cycles and thus different capacities.
How can you possibly know that the charger is "spot on"? Measuring electricity put into the battery is like herding cats. It is not like measuring a piece of wood or a gallon of water. There are all kinds of losses encountered in charging batteries.
Really rather than argue... All I am trying to say is that charging a battery is somewhat like filling a leaky pot. I do not trust the mahr numbers generated by the charger enough to make it a science upon which I will base a gas gauge type of instrument. It is not as simple as accounting for; put 3000 in, 3000 are available to take out (assume a 5Ahr bat).
Sound like you need a new charger. Measuring mAh going into the battery is as close to science as you will get in this hobby. It is not like filling a leaky pot at all. The only losses you have is heat if you are charging the batteries at a very high rate so that they heat up.

If you don't believe me then try this: Connect a fully charged battery to your charger and run a discharge and then charge cycle at 1C to 2C. The difference between the discharge and charge should be within roughly 1%-2% of each other.

Christian
Burn fuel, be happy
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07-04-2014 02:14 PM  6 years ago
meowguy

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Yes. I use mine to monitor voltage, rpm, and temp on my two nitro choppers. The system will keep the highest and lowest readings recorded in a session."Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor
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07-04-2014 03:41 PM  6 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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Sound like you need a new charger. Measuring mAh going into the battery is as close to science as you will get in this hobby.
Exactly. With a new model, you fly a battery to sneak up on your flight time to the level of discharge you're comfortable with. 20%, 25%, whatever remaining. You check this by seeing how much your charger puts back in for a full charge.
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07-04-2014 03:55 PM  6 years ago
rcflyerheli

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Granbury, TX USA

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How can you possibly know that the charger is "spot on"?
At some point, you have to trust that the manufacturer that designed and built the charger knows what they are doing. Quality chargers are not inexpensive, and so I just have to trust that give me valid info when they report numbers.

I have learned that whatever they report back to me, they are consistent, and don't do damage to my packs. Actually, I have 3 different safeties built into my flamewheel. First, I use my TM1000 with a warning signal sent to my DX9. Second, I use the failsafe in my Naza set to .1v below the warning on the TM 1000. And third, I time my flights. I have learned from experience that my timer activates first, followed in about 10 seconds by the TM1000 and very shortly thereafter start losing power on the flamewheel.
Logo 700, Specter 700, Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
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07-04-2014 03:57 PM  6 years ago
Rudy

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Houston TX/Bend OR

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OK I have a Jeti DS 16 radio with a MUI current sensor. The MUI senor provides a live mAh user counter.

Using a 5000mAh pack I can fly till I get a reading of 3500mAh used. I then charge the pack with a Icharger 308D at 2C. I put about 3625 back in to the battery. There is always about 125mAh difference between used and charged no matter what the amount I take out was. I figure this is due to the balancing part of the charge where some cells are slightly discharged and recharge so they all match.

Milliamp used is the only way to get a live battery charge level.
Rudy Ackerman Houston TX/Bend OR
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07-04-2014 04:01 PM  6 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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Rudy, that's exactly what I wish Spektrum would develop. Even though there's an offset, it's consistent and allows you to establish a baseline. And, you have a good buffer before hitting 80% (4000mA) discharge on the battery, which will more than allow for a bit of variance.
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