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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › need help with HK 450,with 4blade head and4 blade tail rotor
07-02-2014 06:40 PM  6 years ago
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vinster40

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calgary,alberta

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need help with HK 450,with 4blade head and4 blade tail rotor
Hi there...i picked up a HK 450 with a 4 blade head and 4 blade tail rotor..its my first 4 blade system,i bought it built,from a guy at the flying field with a ah64 fuse, so i set it up the best i could,i go to hover it and the tail just kicks out and will pirouette uncontrollably...ive maxxed out the gain on the gyro to full, to stop the tail from kicking out ,but thats not helping at all ..i used to fly TT raptor 50 , fly bar, but im kinda lost with this setup...any help would be great...
mega thanks ahead
Vince
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07-02-2014 07:47 PM  6 years ago
Magnumeng

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What gyro system you using?TDR, Kontronik Kosmik Cool 200, Kontronik 750-56, CGY750,
Team KBDD
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07-02-2014 08:26 PM  6 years ago
vinster40

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calgary,alberta

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thanks for the reply!....it has the hobby king 401b gyro
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07-02-2014 08:49 PM  6 years ago
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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Was it/did it fly before you bought it?

Have you verified that the rudder input is the correct direction for both user input and gyro reaction?

When you give right rudder stick input, do the tail blades move the correct way? When you swing the tail to the left, do tail blades move the same direction as right rudder stick input?

Also, is the tail spinning the correct direction? If the tail is belt driven, it's easy to twist the belt the wrong way which makes the tail rotor spin the wrong way.

- John
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07-03-2014 03:40 AM  6 years ago
vinster40

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calgary,alberta

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Hi John....apparently it was just hovered and that was it,and it hovered good,so im told ...i can give it full left imput and it will still swing to the right(looking from behind the heli)...it is a belt driven tail...i tryed to reverse the rudder servo in the TX that didnt do anything,but make the gyro start flashing.. when i move the tail to the left the blades move in, on the tall,when i move it to the right they go out...is that correct,? the blades dont move in the same direction as the right rudder imput when i move the tail to the left
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07-03-2014 03:55 AM  6 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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the blades don't move in the same direction as the right rudder imput when i move the tail to the left
tx rudd stick to the right, blades go right, leading edge in toward the pulley. Pitch slider should be pulled toward the pulley if the tail clamp link is leading. Gyro reaction should be similar if the tail is moved in the opposite direction or to the right with nose pointing left.

Unless you've seen it hovered it went nowhere in my book.
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07-03-2014 04:26 AM  6 years ago
vinster40

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calgary,alberta

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your right-icanfly- about not seeing it hover...i was too trusting.....when i move the stick to the right on the tx,the leading edge of the blades move out, when i move the tail to the left the blades turn right....maybe reverse the gyro?
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07-03-2014 04:49 AM  6 years ago
pctomlin

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Texas

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Here is how to figure out the tail gyro and if it is making the right movements and corrections.

Running leading edge control (pitch slider arm on leading edge of blade grip). When you put in right stick on the transmitter the servo arm should move forward, pitch slider moves toward the tail case. Left stick the servo arm should move backward and the pitch slider moves toward the tail blades. To check gyro correction have the tail directly in front of you looking toward the front of the heli. Move the tail to the left (right turn), the pitch slider should move toward the tail blades if the gyro correction is right. If the transmitter is wrong reverse the tail channel in the transmitter, if the gyro direction is wrong reverse the gyro correction (switch on the gyro or in the software depending on gyro). I believe the HK 401 has the direction switch on the top of the gyro.
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07-03-2014 05:15 AM  6 years ago
vinster40

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calgary,alberta

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ok...i think i got the tail issues sorted out,thanks all for the help...one last question....on the 4 blade main rotor head...if the blades are not fazed properly,would that cause the tail too kick out??
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07-03-2014 07:21 AM  6 years ago
Magnumeng

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I would try a smaller pinion gear. 4 blade heads produce more torque than your typical 2 blade head with the same size blades being used.

I had the dame problem with a TREX 500 that all we did was change the 2 blade head out to a 4 blade. When coming in for a landing in normal mode the copter would kick hard when the motor would engage to soften the landing. Landing while in idle-up, the copter landed nice and easy.
TDR, Kontronik Kosmik Cool 200, Kontronik 750-56, CGY750,
Team KBDD
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07-03-2014 05:33 PM  6 years ago
pctomlin

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Texas

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Going to a smaller pinion could be a step in the wrong direction as it will also slow the tail down too. As said, landing in IU1 (more head speed) made things better. Totally agree about the increased torque caused by more main blade drag. When I experimented with a four blade head on a 450 I used 288mm main blades.
If the gyro control and correction is in the proper directions then I would be looking at longer tail blades for more authority, however I would look at the amount of movement in the tail pitch slider and how much tail blade deflection you get. Depending on what tail was used (Pro tail), may need to go to trailing edge control on the tail to get more deflection to counter-act the torque and be able to turn right.
As to the phasing question, it should not affect the tail, it would make the main head control a little wonky if out a bunch to sight inaccuracy in flight if out a little. To check phasing on a four blade head place a set of blades in line with the boom. When you move the elevator only the blades perpendicular to the boom should move. If you get a little movement in the blades in line with the boom, the phasing is a little out. Same when you give aileron input, only the blades in line with the boom should move.
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