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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersEngines › Need help understanding difference??
06-30-2014 01:09 PM  6 years ago
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coolgabsi

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Plano TX

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Need help understanding difference??
New to gas engines. Looking at doing a gasser 600.. With either the OS KIT and gt15hz

Or helibug conversin with zenoah 270 290 something..

Problem is I don't understand these engines and the way they are specced very well. Are zenoah engines bigger engines and bigger power?

Is the gt15hz-600 with its 2.6hp a better engine (power wise ) ..?

What's best ? I like throwing around my birds.. They need to have some punch in them. I am a nitro fan. I love fuel helis. Gas is something I have been craving to try for a while. And the thought of an engine designed for 700 gasser in a 600 is right up my alley.

All that to say, I need help. Please someone tell me what differences there are ? What's a more reliable engine? What's a more powerful engine? How do I read these engines ?

Thanks
People call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D
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06-30-2014 01:18 PM  6 years ago
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Power is the problem,an electric heli which generates a big block V8 sound electronically is your best betTeam- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here
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06-30-2014 01:24 PM  6 years ago
Kos

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Athens, Greece

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IF power is the problem...
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06-30-2014 01:31 PM  6 years ago
shawmcky

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What Kos saidTeam- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here
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06-30-2014 01:44 PM  6 years ago
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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OP...google

gasser power thoughts

15cc for 3D? No videos to prove such...yet. Not on a 600.

You definitely need to go 700 class and given popular opinions, helibug seems the way to go with a modified 26cc or larger engine.

Edited
For clarification
~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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06-30-2014 01:57 PM  6 years ago
coolgabsi

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Plano TX

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I was electric before and exactly .. They didn't make the noise I craved so all my birds went nitro. Got out of electric

I agree with v8 comment .. I don't drive any less either lol

You are saying a 600heli with 700 class enginr? Or 700 with 700?

I see that gt15 is lighter with 2.6hp
Zenoah is heavier with 3.5-4
People call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D
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06-30-2014 02:09 PM  6 years ago
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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That little engine,the 15,has proved very unreliable,If you fly hard and fast,i wonder whether the bigger engine would be right for you,even in a 600.Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here
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06-30-2014 02:44 PM  6 years ago
coolgabsi

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Plano TX

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I dont fly very hard or very fast. I fly big air.. Like tic tocs .. piro flips.. loops rolls. figure 8 funnels and stuff. Not a pro..

I know how people say Nitro doesnt make enough power, but I beg to differ, lol .. with my 91hzr3d speed wnad hitori.. I can pop and smack if I want to .. all day.. its a happy setup. So.. compared to that.. is gas about the same power ? or more ? or less?
People call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D
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06-30-2014 03:10 PM  6 years ago
geomecc

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Long Island ,NY

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a little less. you will need more collective management and maneuvers will be a little slower. just my opinionR I P Roman Jr. Team SRW EFC
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06-30-2014 04:02 PM  6 years ago
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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Here's the same HWC 29cc on two different 700 class, pilots and flying style.

Take it easy type

Watch at YouTube

Harder type

Watch at YouTube

Another 29cc in a goblin. New engine?

Watch at YouTube

I just missed a deal on an Airstar Mongoose. An 800 class (up to 1000mm)

Watch at YouTube

Gassers lacking in power? Myth Busted.
~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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06-30-2014 04:42 PM  6 years ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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I see that gt15 is lighter with 2.6hp
that HP figure is very much debated and I personnally doubt that figure based on the flight videos posted...

besides, it takes torque to hold a healthy Head speed, thats why HV electics are monsters in the air.

If your starting out with gasoline, IMHO I would avoid the GT15, like it was already stated, this engine has had reliability problems and the posts not only here but more so on the freaky site are not encouraging. Some guys have tried to unload them in the classifieds with little to no luck, others have dumped well over $1,000 in repairs on GT15s only to give up and leave them in a dark drawer forever. Yes there are some success stories out there, but my guess is that most these stories are comming from pilots that do not push the heli very hard and or may have OCD when it comes to tuning.

A Zenoah powered heli will be easier to tune, cheaper to find parts for (engine) and seems to have much more of a following that can give more knowledge if problems arise.
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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06-30-2014 08:26 PM  6 years ago
rhodesengr

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Pleasanton, CA USA

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If you want to throw a heli around hard core 3D style, a gasser may not be your best bet. Gassers running the G2xxRc series are really good for sport flying, very long flight times, cheap fuel costs, and some 3D.

The Zenoah engines like G290RC G270RC are very reliable. They were originally designed for an RC truck but are based on yard equipment type engines. They have their own cooling system. You can run them stock or get modified versions from BH Hanson or Toxic Marine. The OS GT engine seem to have a high HP rating but it operates at much higher RPM (20,000 vs 13,000). As others have mentioned there are a lot of threads discussing problems with them.

The stock Zenoah g290RC is rated for about 2.7 HP. Some guys run tuned pipes on them and get more power but that does not address the extra cooling required if you generate more power.

If you want a fuel heli that you can throw around hard, try to track down what Nitro setup Tim Jones flys. Whatever he is using is just phenomonal.
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07-09-2014 03:38 AM  6 years ago
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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Check out this thread on stuffing a 29cc rc engine in a 600 nitro. There is a video of a mere mortal flying it and having fun!

https://rc.runryder.com/t766077p1/
Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them
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07-09-2014 03:40 AM  6 years ago
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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here is the vid ..Align 600 nitro conversion.

Watch at YouTube

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them
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07-09-2014 12:57 PM  6 years ago
Doug Darby

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Dallas, Texas

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Gassers can do 3D all Day..
Contrary to what is posted above there are adsolutely no heating issues associated with running a Quickdraw Pipe on any Zenoah Engine I have run it on. I have at least one gasser setup with the QuickDraw which adds an additional 2 hp to all the Zenoah engines that TRM Power modifies... And it will give you 11 minutes of hard 3D on a tank of fuel. Mitch Pricer, JcZankle, Ben Storick, and Tim Jones have all flown my Gasser on the QuickDraw and they all compare it to a good running nitro anyday. Plus there are good videos posted here. Any suggestion that a gasser running a Quickdraw has inadequate cooling is simply not true at least in my 2+ years flying it on several different helis...
doug
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07-09-2014 05:10 PM  6 years ago
rhodesengr

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Pleasanton, CA USA

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Doug,
Having had dirt bikes in the 2-stroke 80's, I was thinking about running a tuned pipe when I first got into gassers. I was sort of talked out of it by folks here that said they were harder to tune. Your success has my interest level up again.

I don't really know if the cooling is adequate or not. If you can get a large number of flights then it seems ok. I think my statement was that drawing more power from engine places additional heat load on an engine. I think that is just basic thermodynamics. Fuel engines are at best something like 30% efficient so 70% or so of the fuel energy is converted to heat. If you draw more power, the heat load has to go up unless all the extra power is from efficiency increase.

So will that Quickdraw pipe mount on a T700 HB conversion?
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07-09-2014 08:18 PM  6 years ago
fastflyer20

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N. Tonawanda, NY

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I ran the QD on a few different air frames, but the TRM 300 w/mod RJX is currently my preferred setup for everyday flying. Keeps the head speed/engine speed a little lower and still has plenty of power for me.
Tom
CAUTION - my posts are based on my experiences, yours may be different.
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07-09-2014 09:24 PM  6 years ago
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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with the RC format of the engines, cooling is a non issue. That fan is moving so much air and its routed around the cylinder pretty well that you've really done something if you over heat it

the PUH format is entirely dependent on how well the heli mfgr designed the cooling system.
examples:
  1. Century has a good design
  2. JR has a really large fan on the GSR
  3. The Kyosho ZG belt driven system seems to work okay as well
  4. from what I've seen of it, the upcoming TSA model also has a good design
Proprietor - Gas Powered Helicopters
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07-09-2014 09:29 PM  6 years ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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the upcoming TSA model
what you talkn bout...spill it!
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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07-09-2014 09:51 PM  6 years ago
rhodesengr

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Pleasanton, CA USA

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the upcoming TSA model

what you talkn bout...spill it!
would that be the model that has been upcoming for about two years

getting back to the quickdraw pipe, I looked into it some this morning and it does not look like you can just buy a bolt-on pipe. Maybe I am missing something. I can't weld and I don't have a shop so i can't make brackets, etc.

If someone makes a finished, bolt-on product for a helibug T700, I buy one just to play with it.
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