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07-04-2014 04:06 PM  6 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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No
The change should probably be about 200 rpms (maybe more) on the HS is my guess...
Not 200, that's alot...more like about 40.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 2703D, 4370 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3450 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1980 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 883 flts
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07-04-2014 04:27 PM  6 years ago
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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I really don't think he is going to notice any change in tuning if all he does is up his headspeed by 40 rpms...

I'm suggesting he increase his HS by 200 and tune accordingly to see if that offsets the effect of the missing exhaust tip.
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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07-05-2014 08:50 PM  6 years ago
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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sounds good. I give it a try tomorrow morning when I go to the field. Thursday it just didn't seem like it had the same power. I tray again in the morning. To darn Hot!! to fly now. 95F 20 % H 5mph breeze. here!
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07-06-2014 03:50 PM  6 years ago
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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First off. I just want to say I appreciated all the great advice you all have given me. I too am gasser newbie. I wish that there was someone here with gasser heli experience! In my club I am the only guy flying gasser heli. So I have know one to learn from or check my setup. For me since I got into heli's I have relied on RR and other sites for advice. Thank god for that or I probably would have quit this hobby long ago.

I know I am really struggling with getting it tuned properly. The other day when I was flying after I lost the muffler tip. The engine just didn't seem have the same pop as before. When I do full collective punch outs now it goes up real slow and it doesn't seem like the engine is bogging. I am using a governor. My head speeds are set to normal at 1685 idle 1 at 1750 and idle 2 1850. I lift off in normal mode and the go to idle 1 and right into idle 2 and that is where I stay while flying around. My pitch curve is +11 0 -11 in all flight modes. Except normal and lower the bottom to -5 Should I turn off the gov to tune the engine or does it matter? Right now I have my needles set at L 1 1/8 and h 1 1/4 . My engine is the BH Hanson 270 3d max. My settings are what it says in the manual that came with the motor for the 990 carb. I have almost 4 gallons of fuel through since i built it in April. This is a Trex 700 nitro converted using the Helibug conversion. I built this new in April of this year. Everything was new for those of you that haven been following my post from the beginning. some days I think I have just about got it figured out and then not.
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07-06-2014 04:31 PM  6 years ago
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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When I do full collective punch outs now it goes up real slow and it doesn't seem like the engine is bogging
Well with my limited experience I would like to ask: Have you recently gotten the CGY750 back from Futaba service?

The reason I ask is cause I took mine in for a sensor failure early spring. When it came back from Futaba, I went thru the basic settings, gave it a quick look and went flying. I too noticed that my heli had no where near the same "power" in the air despite the engine running good and the HS at 1950. I had to go in and do a full reload of all my settings in both the basic AND expert menus to get the full collective and cyclic throws it had before. Once I confirmed everything on the bench, took it out and whoa la, I had full "power" again.

If the engine sounds good, and is not bogging in during full collective, then you may not have the full pitch you think you have going to the rotor.

I would suggest putting her on the bench and re-checking all your settings in both the CGY750 and the TX...just in case

with +-11 degress of pitch and 1850 on the head, you should be climbing at a decent rate...actually the 270 should be good to push the rotor at +-13.

the last thing that comes to mind is that your clutch my be slipping? ...though notlikely, even a broken clutch grabs the bell good enough to fly, until you land and the shoe falls out from under the bell...
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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07-06-2014 09:30 PM  6 years ago
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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I went this morning and flew. Climbouts are strong and the engine really pulls good. I just can't get the engine tune right. It seems like higher the headspeed the more tail kick I am getting. I have read all the post I can find for proper engine tuning. With the needles set at L 1 1/8 and H 1 1/4 it runs prettty good but still getting some tail kick and when flying around the tail with kick more at higher headspeeds. But during rolls it seems to bog some and when hovering inverted the engines seems like it maybe leaning out. I am using the lynx clunk with foam for my pickup. It seem like today the more i lean the low needle the richer it got. Seemed like it started four cycling more I turn the needle in. I read a post on tuning. Where the skids are suppose to shake if your to lean. I can't seem to reach that state. Seems like this problem started getting worse after I lost the muffler tip. Maybe I am just expecting to much from this gasser. Here is some photos I took of my plug today

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07-06-2014 09:54 PM  6 years ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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Climbouts are strong and the engine really pulls good
Ok...so now THAT issue is fixed? but...
But during rolls it seems to bog some and when hovering inverted the engines seems like it maybe leaning out
I think you may need to attach some sort of telemetry or datalogger to tell you what the temps are and when they are happening.

If the heli "pulls good" and "climbouts are strong" but during rolls the heli bogs...your problem my not be the tune but rather the setup somewhere.
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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07-07-2014 03:40 AM  6 years ago
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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Just went over to the other website and took a look at the tuning videos Bob Welch did and now I think I got a better understanding of the tuning process. I have to try it out maybe Tuesday on my day off.
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07-07-2014 06:30 AM  6 years ago
rhodesengr

rrApprentice

Pleasanton, CA USA

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I was having some issues with bogging particularly on back flips. I don't think agonizing over the carb tuning is the answer. Trying to get more power by going leaner is risky. If the engine transitions from idle to hover and pulls ok on climb outs, your needles are good enough. You can get rid of the bogging with smaller blades and lowering your roll rates. I am now using the Align 690 blades after using the Radix blades which even for 690's are wider. I left my TX rates at 100% but lowered the flip and roll agility in my FBL controller until the max flip rate didn't cause bogging.

It is never going to flip around like a high powered electric but you can get bog free operation.
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07-07-2014 01:57 PM  6 years ago
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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One thing the heli does is. When I first spool up and Just as I start to lift off the rpm's slow down and then when in a hover it will start to pickup again. This is what makes me think it is still a little on rich side. Does that make sense?

I am currently using mav 690 sport flybarless blades. I will try changing the roll rate in the cgy 750. I pretty sure that will fix the bogging. It doesn't bog when doing loops or stationary flips. Just when doing fast rolls.
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07-07-2014 04:30 PM  6 years ago
rhodesengr

rrApprentice

Pleasanton, CA USA

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if your throttle curve is increasing then the RPMs should not drop. You might be a little rich on the low needle if you don't get a smooth transition. But if the engine actually seems like its dying when you open the throttle, you might be lean from an air leak. Also, if the needle setting don't make sense and seem to need big changes, you might be chasing an air leak.

To test for an air leak, take all the blade off and get a can of Dust Off (Freon) spray and spray carefully around the base of the carb with the engine idling. If the engine dies, you have an air leak. You can test the other engine seals the same way.
Do you have an after market carb spacer with Teflon gaskets? The stock Zenoah carb insulator often develops air leaks. All the modified engines have the aluminum spacers with Teflon gaskets.
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07-08-2014 05:15 AM  6 years ago
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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I just took a look at the tuning videos that Tom Welch did. And I think I am real close on my needle settings now. In his video it shows the engine rpm dropping in a hover and then picking up after a little bit. This is exactly what my heli is doing. He indicates that the high is a little rich. Maybe tomorrow I can go out to the FF and see if that is it! My transition during spool up is smooth and is no means dying when I open the throttle. Sorry If I haven't been clear on my explanations. It is hard sometimes to explain in writing what is happening. Never been good at that. I will try to improve on that. I keep ya posted!!
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07-08-2014 11:27 PM  6 years ago
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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Well just got back from field a little while ago. I had the High needle to lean. Once I open it up about a 1/8 the heli really came alive. Climb outs are good and strong. Plenty of power now. Thanks everyone for all your good advice. Just needs to cool down a little here. 98F out right now. Always have to go out early morning and fly til about noon and then go home and crank up the air conditioning!!
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07-18-2014 07:19 PM  6 years ago
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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Well I went to the ff today. And basically I have no climb out power. I was hovering inverted and gave it full negative and it didn't move. Good thing I had some altitude between the heli and the ground or I would have been screwed.

I really feel this all started when I lost the reducer and screw that goes in the end of the century V2 muffler. I order a RJX muffler 2 weeks ago. I been holding off installing it. But after todays performance I feel I have no choice. I am going to give it a try to see if that helps or not.
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07-18-2014 08:29 PM  6 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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That doesn't make sense
Are you sure you have enough negative pitch? What if you have too much positive and not enough negative?

You just said climb outs were good, that's why I'm thinking not enough pitch on the negative side...

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 2703D, 4370 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3450 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1980 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 883 flts
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07-18-2014 10:14 PM  6 years ago
coolingfan

rrVeteran

Grand Junction, Colorado

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I have -11 and +10.6 and before I lost the exhaust tip all was good. Spool up is good and fast. But when I lift off the rpm's drop slightly. So I went and set my needles to low at 1 1/8 and High is at a about 1 3/8. I tried opening up the high and you could tell it richen up by the sound but it didn't make any difference. You can fly around and do loops rolls etc. And it does ok! But when I do a full collective punch it goes up real slow. And before you could here the motor load and it would boogy! But now it just different. It is hard to explain! It just doesn't seem to have the same punch as before. When I got the engine AL included another 990 carb. Maybe I should give it a try? I already mounted the RJX Muffler. Going out tomorrow morning to test it. Unless the wife changes my plan!! lol
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07-19-2014 03:26 AM  6 years ago
coolingfan

rrVeteran

Grand Junction, Colorado

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Couldn't wait til morning, decided to go field this evening. It sure is alot quieter with the RJX muffler. At least when it is idling. I am starting to drawl a conclusion here about all this.

Well here is where I am at. I decided to just the low needle while idling. I started turing in the screw until the engine idle begin to pickup and could feel the heli beginning to vibrate. I then back the screw out til it quit vibrating and then just a little more. Flew it, but still didn't feel there. So then I turn the high needle in about a 1/16 and flew again. Getting better and then another 1 /16 and now it seems pretty close. Climb outs were strong again. Bottom line, I have no idea if this is the right or wrong way! But since there aren't any gasser heli pilots to consort with here, I am on my own. I wonder are there any gasser guys in Denver area that fly heli's There surely must be. How about it, any heli gasser fliers in Denver area? I need help!!
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07-19-2014 05:12 AM  6 years ago
coolingfan

rrVeteran

Grand Junction, Colorado

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Sorry for drawn out post. If you haven't figure it out yet. I have some idea what I am doing, but taking the long way to get there. I just took a look at where my needles are set at and was quite surprised. low needle is set to 1 turn out. And high is 1 1/4 now. I feel that I may be close for the Altitude that I fly at. 5000 feet above sea level. Any thoughts on this? If anything the muffler is a lot quieter.
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