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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Please go comment on FAA's Special Rule's
06-30-2014 05:48 PM  4 years agoPost 61
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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Don't even lecture me about this hobby, I was flying RC long before you even had an interest in it.
And you are part of the very problem we're battling in this hobby and have since the very beginning. You're making all these blanket statements about parts of it (namely FPV) with no experience with FPV, no information about those you're accusing of wrongdoing and having lifted not even a finger to inform yourself about either.

That's why FAA is coming after us - people like you who are "informing" them without themselves being informed.

Like I said, you and you alone are responsible for the accuracy of the information you spread around. You need to remember that others participate in paying the price when you spread misinformation, not just you.

LS

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06-30-2014 05:56 PM  4 years agoPost 62
whirlyspud

rrKey Veteran

USA

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I like FPV myself. I just wish some of the operators didn't do it in such an idiotic manner. Of course we all have our own opinions on what idiotic is. There are plenty of non FPV helicopter pilots that I consider to be idiots as well.

Mike

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06-30-2014 06:15 PM  4 years agoPost 63
xcellgasman101

rrElite Veteran

WOODWARD, OKLA....

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Absolutely not. It applies only at AMA fields and sanctioned events.
WRONG!! Now who is spreading false info, As long as you have permission to fly where you are flying, AMA is in effect, AMA rules are a guide line for safety, and should be followed no matter where you fly, If your driving a car and you come up on a curve that says 30mph, do you still drive 80 and try to make it, No,, Its not a law to slow down as only posted black and white speed limits are law, it's just a safety matter, As is flying FPV with a spotter, its a safety matter, Plain and simple, Do I follow all the rules? No,, But I do try to keep safety in mind at all times,,,

[quote]Should apply is the operative word. As I told xcell, however, the AMA rules are not rules everywhere else.
Again WRONG!! A rule is a rule is a rule, NO matter where you are, Just like speeding, Just because there is no cop around, and you speed, your still breaking the Law!!! XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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06-30-2014 06:22 PM  4 years agoPost 64
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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And you are part of the very problem we're battling in this hobby and have since the very beginning. You're making all these blanket statements about parts of it (namely FPV) with no experience with FPV, no information about those you're accusing of wrongdoing and having lifted not even a finger to inform yourself about either.
That's why FAA is coming after us - people like you who are "informing" them without themselves being informed.
Like I said, you and you alone are responsible for the accuracy of the information you spread around. You need to remember that others participate in paying the price when you spread misinformation, not just you.
I'm not making blanket statements about anything. You yourself admitted you aren't comfortable with LOS flying. Am I wrong about that? Did you not say that numerous times?

I'm saying this straight up that if you can't fly LOS reliably you don't need to be flying FPV. IMHO you are a danger to your fellow flier and spectator. IMHO you're no better than a spotlight flier. If the FPV system fails your machine is a kite off the string.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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06-30-2014 06:24 PM  4 years agoPost 65
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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As long as you have permission to fly where you are flying, AMA is in effect, AMA rules are a guide line for safety, and should be followed no matter where you fly,
Guidelines everywhere, yes. Rules everywhere, no.
Again WRONG!! A rule is a rule is a rule, NO matter where you are, Just like speeding, Just because there is no cop around, and you speed, your still breaking the Law!!!
Nope. A rule is a rule only where it's applicable as a rule. Elsewhere, it's not a rule. If you drive 65mph on road X, and the speed limit is 55mph on road Y, you're not breaking any 55mph speed limit. Only if 55mph is the speed limit on road X are you breaking the law.

I'm surprised you guys don't understand this, this is really basic stuff.

LS

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06-30-2014 06:28 PM  4 years agoPost 66
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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I'm saying this straight up that if you can't fly LOS reliably you don't need to be flying FPV.
And that's the type of misinformation I'm talking about - in what way are LOS skills needed to control an aircraft from FPV? You do know the skill sets are completely different don't you?
IMHO you are a danger to your fellow flier and spectator. IMHO you're no better than a spotlight flier. If the FPV system fails your machine is a kite off the string.
And again, your accusations here against me are completely uniformed.

LS

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06-30-2014 06:44 PM  4 years agoPost 67
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Please return this thread back to its original theme - send your comments in regarding the NPRM for the latest FAA interpretation debacle (FAA-2014-0396). Your ability to enjoy RC depends on it! If you believe this is an innocuous piece of regulation, you are seriously wrong. You have heard of the "give an inch, take a mile" slogan, right? Do not empower this rogue FAA to take more freedoms from you.

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06-30-2014 06:50 PM  4 years agoPost 68
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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And that's the type of misinformation I'm talking about - in what way are LOS skills needed to control an aircraft from FPV? You do know the skill sets are completely different don't you?
Everytime I've ever flown FPV it's like flying in a tunnel. There is no spatial reference, no ability to pan around and look outside the cockpit as you could in most FS aircraft so where is the misinformation there? Do you have pan and tilt controls on your models can you look down at the ground while you are happily tooling around upstairs? If you can show us.
And again, your accusations here against me are completely uniformed.
Accuse is a strong word here. I made a general statement thus:

"I'm not making blanket statements about anything. You yourself admitted you aren't comfortable with LOS flying. Am I wrong about that? Did you not say that numerous times?
I'm saying this straight up that if you can't fly LOS reliably you don't need to be flying FPV. IMHO you are a danger to your fellow flier and spectator. IMHO you're no better than a spotlight flier. If the FPV system fails your machine is a kite off the string."

The "you" in this case applies to anyone that eschews LOS skills as opposed to FPV skills. I've been very careful to say that these are my opinions and I stand by them. Part of flying a model safely is being situationally aware. How can you do that if you fly your models looking out through a tunnel?

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Drones = EVIL

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06-30-2014 07:09 PM  4 years agoPost 69
whirlyspud

rrKey Veteran

USA

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"How can you do that if you fly your models looking out through a tunnel?"

This right here is my main issue with FPV when used without a LOS spotter, or when being flown beyond the range of LOS.

But, to be fair, how many of us have seen high altitude auto contests? I think the same should apply.

Mike

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06-30-2014 07:20 PM  4 years agoPost 70
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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Everytime I've ever flown FPV it's like flying in a tunnel. There is no spatial reference, no ability to pan around and look outside the cockpit as you could in most FS aircraft so where is the misinformation there?
That's just incorrect - that's where the misinformation is. Have you ever flown a helicopter FPV? Or even a multirotor? You most certainly can maintain spatial reference in heli/multi FPV.
Do you have pan and tilt controls on your models can you look down at the ground while you are happily tooling around upstairs? If you can show us.
Did you know that multis and helicopters can rotate about the yaw axis independently?
Accuse is a strong word here. I made a general statement thus:
"I'm not making blanket statements about anything. You yourself admitted you aren't comfortable with LOS flying. Am I wrong about that? Did you not say that numerous times?
Irrelevant, since LOS and FPV involve orthogonal flying skills. More below.
I'm saying this straight up that if you can't fly LOS reliably you don't need to be flying FPV. IMHO you are a danger to your fellow flier and spectator. IMHO you're no better than a spotlight flier. If the FPV system fails your machine is a kite off the string."
The "you" in this case applies to anyone that eschews LOS skills as opposed to FPV skills. I've been very careful to say that these are my opinions and I stand by them. Part of flying a model safely is being situationally aware. How can you do that if you fly your models looking out through a tunnel?
I've already pointed out the misinformation in your opinion. You just are simply not correct in what you're asserting about FPV. Your statements are just wrong.

And that's your responsibility, not mine. You are responsible for informing yourself about what you're criticizing. You're not doing that and that makes you as bad as the media cases we're all criticizing as well as the FAA and the holes in their reasoning.

You need to go learn more about FPV. I would suggest learning it to competence and then go do some flying to get some time under your belt.

Then and only then will you be in a position to criticize and I might be inclined to take your criticisms seriously. Until then, I have no reason to accept them.

LS

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06-30-2014 07:28 PM  4 years agoPost 71
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Having been exposed to flying both full scale and RC very early in life, I find both fairly easy to do. I do understand Terry's comment about the tunnel feel with FPV goggles. Most are between 30° and 40° FOV. It does take a little while to get used to it. I wish Fatshark or some other manufacturer would produce a 70° or better FOV pair of goggles.

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06-30-2014 08:25 PM  4 years agoPost 72
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Did you know that multis and helicopters can rotate about the yaw axis independently?
No sh*t Sherlock. What they can't do is have you rotate your POV inside the cockpit while the heli or multirotor is on a constant heading.
That's just incorrect - that's where the misinformation is. Have you ever flown a helicopter FPV? Or even a multirotor? You most certainly can maintain spatial reference in heli/multi FPV.
How many times do I have to keep answering the same question? Yes to both.
Irrelevant, since LOS and FPV involve orthogonal flying skills.
So, you can't fly LOS, I understand. I can do both but I choose to fly LOS most of the time.
I've already pointed out the misinformation in your opinion. You just are simply not correct in what you're asserting about FPV. Your statements are just wrong.
And that's your responsibility, not mine. You are responsible for informing yourself about what you're criticizing. You're not doing that and that makes you as bad as the media cases we're all criticizing as well as the FAA and the holes in their reasoning.
You need to go learn more about FPV. I would suggest learning it to competence and then go do some flying to get some time under your belt.
Then and only then will you be in a position to criticize and I might be inclined to take your criticisms seriously. Until then, I have no reason to accept them.
Your opinion, not a statement of fact. I get it, LOS flying is challenging, most full size pilots that I've trained are the ones that have the most problems and tend to revert back to old habits. FPV makes it that much easier to revert.

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Drones = EVIL

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06-30-2014 08:51 PM  4 years agoPost 73
revmix

rrKey Veteran

NJ

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FederalPointVerification
ain't authorized by Congress

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06-30-2014 09:10 PM  4 years agoPost 74
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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No sh*t Sherlock. What they can't do is have you rotate your POV inside the cockpit while the heli or multirotor is on a constant heading.
But that doesn't mean you can't maintain sufficient spatial awareness to fly safely. If you flew FPV regularly, heli/multi in particular, you would be aware of this and not simply saying over and over that it can't be done.
Your opinion, not a statement of fact.
Wrong. Mine is an informed opinion about FPV. Yours is not. You have an informed opinion about LOS only. I can fly both LOS and FPV, however (and I do do occasional LOS refreshers with my trex), which is how I know your opinion is misinformed.
I get it, LOS flying is challenging, most full size pilots that I've trained are the ones that have the most problems and tend to revert back to old habits. FPV makes it that much easier to revert.
True, but irrelevant. What is relevant is your criticism of FPV without the required knowledge and experience. Similarly for your accusations that I'm a hazard. Neither of those criticisms is informed and therefore need not be taken seriously.

You do do a bad disservice to the hobby by persisting with those uninformed criticisms and I would encourage you to inform yourself on FPV and its technologies first before you continue to do so. Then you'll be in a position to mount those critiques.

LS

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06-30-2014 09:36 PM  4 years agoPost 75
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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But that doesn't mean you can't maintain sufficient spatial awareness to fly safely. If you flew FPV regularly, heli/multi in particular, you would be aware of this and not simply saying over and over that it can't be done.
Show me a video that shows you doing an approach to final in a sharp right 180 degree turn where you can keep the pad in view. You can do that in a FS heli or plane. I want to see it with a model.
Wrong. Mine is an informed opinion about FPV. Yours is not. You have an informed opinion about LOS only. I can fly both LOS and FPV, however (and I do do occasional LOS refreshers with my trex), which is how I know your opinion is misinformed.
Your opinion as you admitted....not a statement in fact. Being informed can be a very narrow POV depending on your experience.
You do do a bad disservice to the hobby by persisting with those uninformed criticisms and I would encourage you to inform yourself
True, but irrelevant. What is relevant is your criticism of FPV without the required knowledge and experience. Similarly for your accusations that I'm a hazard. Neither of those criticisms is informed and therefore need not be taken seriously.
on FPV and its technologies first before you continue to do so. Then you'll be in a position to mount those critiques.
It's my opinion based on years of teaching folks to fly that if you can't fly LOS reliably, flying FPV is a panacea for not being a reliable LOS pilot.

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06-30-2014 10:30 PM  4 years agoPost 76
Stephen Born

rrElite Veteran

USA

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AMA has consistently discouraged irresponsible FPV flying. With the influx of disregards to public safety, I encourage regulations and applaud pilot accountability.

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06-30-2014 11:45 PM  4 years agoPost 77
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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Show me a video that shows you doing an approach to final in a sharp right 180 degree turn where you can keep the pad in view. You can do that in a FS heli or plane.
Wrong. In many high wing FS aircraft, like the humble C150 and 172, you lose sight of the landing point at critical points in the approach (Downwind->base turn and sometimes base->final turn). In a "carrier" approach (what you described above), you can't see it at all, all the way from downwind until you're basically on short final.
I want to see it with a model.
Why? You do know that doesn't impede you from making a proper approach to landing, don't you?
Your opinion as you admitted....not a statement in fact. Being informed can be a very narrow POV depending on your experience.
Ditto.
It's my opinion based on years of teaching folks to fly that if you can't fly LOS reliably, flying FPV is a panacea for not being a reliable LOS pilot.
You don't even fly FPV. In what way are you qualified to make that judgement?

LS

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07-01-2014 12:30 AM  4 years agoPost 78
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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You have remarkable selective reading skills. I've already said that I've taken the opportunity to fly FPV on several occasions and I'm just not smitten with it like you are. Each to their own. You also don't like answering direct questions either. Figures. If you keep repeating the same talking points, eventually they may come true.

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Drones = EVIL

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07-01-2014 01:22 AM  4 years agoPost 79
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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You have remarkable selective reading skills. I've already said that I've taken the opportunity to fly FPV on several occasions and I'm just not smitten with it like you are.
But yet you somehow seem to be an expert in it. As well as an expert on my flying habits and techniques, to the point that you've felt justified in labeling me a hazard.

I'm just asking you where you got all this information and expertise. How did you come to know all this about FPV just from a few "opportunities"? How did you figure out I was a hazard, knowing absolutely nothing about how I fly, where and so forth?
Each to their own.
That doesn't seem to be your goal. You've shown from the very beginning of our exchange a pretty intense hostility towards FPV. I don't see "to each his own" in any of your remarks and interrogations at all.
You also don't like answering direct questions either. Figures. If you keep repeating the same talking points, eventually they may come true.
And now, you are the one no longer answering questions. See my questions above. And see my previous comments about your 180-deg-sharp-turn challenge - it appears you have some very basic misconceptions about FPV flying, both full-scale and in a model. And yet you feel you're fully equipped to criticize and/or analyze both.

So you haven't convinced me of anything yet. You got a lot of work to do before that happens at this point.

LS

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07-01-2014 01:40 AM  4 years agoPost 80
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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AMA has consistently discouraged irresponsible FPV flying. With the influx of disregards to public safety, I encourage regulations and applaud pilot accountability.
This is the time for all pilots to unite; not ignite.
So much for FPV even in AMA's rule set. Have AMA already thrown in the towel on defending FPV? I thought it was still supported by them through their FPV rules?

LS

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Please go comment on FAA's Special Rule's
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