RunRyder RC
WATCH
 12 pages [ <<    <     8      9     ( 10 )     11      12     NEXT    >> ] 7963 views POST REPLY
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Please go comment on FAA's Special Rule's
07-03-2014 12:56 AM  6 years ago
Retired2011

rrElite Veteran

Lee's Summit, MO

MyPosts All Forum Topic
To me it's not about what's legal or illegal here...
It's about common sense, and doing what's right regardless of the law!
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 12:57 AM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Now, there may be (and probably is) a law which states that you must follow the AMA SC at AMA fields, events. etc.,
All I asked for is the definition of this law, nothing more, nothing less. If it's a law it must be documented. You either have it, or you don't.
  
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 01:01 AM  6 years ago
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
All I asked for is the definition of this law, nothing more, nothing less. If it's a law it must be documented. You either have it, or you don't.
Read my previous response. There is no such law (tho there may be one that requires you to follow the SC when at an AMA field, etc.). So there's no documentation, etc. to produce.

LS
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 01:05 AM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
There is no such law (tho there may be one that requires you to follow the SC when at an AMA field, etc.).
So what you're saying is really don't know for sure?
  
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 01:08 AM  6 years ago
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Well, I have learned one thing for certain, something that I have suspected for a long time: Unclejane is NOT the competent pilot and advisor that he often portrays himself to be, and we, the LOS community are just a bunch of unedumakated buffoons.

unclejane also can't answer one tiny, simple little question.
Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 01:13 AM  6 years ago
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
So what you're saying is really don't know for sure?
No. Read my previous response.

PS: are you asking about a possible law that requires following the SC at AMA fields? If that, no I don't know if there is such a law (there may be one, there may not be. I suspect there is?).

If your'e asking about whether the AMA SC must be followed NOT at AMA fields, events, etc., I've already answered that at copious length.

LS
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 01:29 AM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
No. Read my previous response.
I did, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. You simply don't know.
  
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 01:36 AM  6 years ago
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I did, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. You simply don't know.
..if there's a law requiring following the AMA SC AT AMA fields, events, etc., no I don't know that (off the top of my head, I assume there is one but there possibly isn't).

If there's an "AMA SC law", local, state or federal, that must be followed NOT AT AMA field, events, etc., yes I know there is no such law.

LS
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 01:45 AM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
If there's an "AMA SC law", local, state or federal, that must be followed NOT AT AMA field, events, etc., yes I know there is no such law.
So you've checked every local, state, and federal law on the books to verify that? How could you be certain without verifying it?
  
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 01:50 AM  6 years ago
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
So you've checked every local, state, and federal law on the books to verify that? How could you be certain without verifying it?
I already know the SC itself is not a law, so I'm certain it is not on any of our legal books (true by definition).
The FAA, is of course, considering imposing its own regulations on our activities; those would apply everywhere in their domain (the NAS).

LS
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 02:32 AM  6 years ago
HREFAB

rrApprentice

Long Island NY

MyPosts All Forum Topic
AHHH FREEDOM!
Yes, it's true, if there isn't a law, then you're not compelled to follow any 'rules' promulgated by an association that has been working for your rights since its inception.

You are free as a lark to fly your model in any willy nilly way that you see fit. You can choose to ignore common sense guidelines because YOU are smarter and more talented that the average riff raff.

If you cause harm to someone, you will insist that your Insurance rider covers you regardless of your own precipitous actions because YOU don't have to do anything that isn't a LAW.

Yes indeed, you are what personal injury lawyers call "A Gold Mine".

Total lack of common sense, total disregard for the welfare of anyone else, just completely immersed in your own personal 'expertise' and 'talent'.

Good Lord what a tool.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 02:59 AM  6 years ago
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Wearing horse blinders comes to mind here. Perhaps those goggles truly prevent him from seeing beyond his own nose, literally and figuratively.Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 04:08 AM  6 years ago
mjohnston81

rrNovice

Albuquerque, NM, USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
When you signed up as a AMA member you agree to follow the AMA Safety Code and rules no matter where you fly. Does not matter whether it is at a Club, Sanctioned event, park or backyard. The card in your wallet says that you personally agree with following those rules.

All of this is about being a responsible person and doing what is the right thing to do and not doing stuff that could hurt people or property.

Also you should not purposely go post stuff that will hurt the hobby or our ability to fly. AMA has done a great job over the years and we should support what they are trying to do.

AMA is going to fight tooth and nail to protect our rights to fly. Congress passed the law that keeps the FAA from regulating Model Aircraft and that is where we need to concentrate our efforts. Congress funds the FAA and can just as easily remove funding. We need to not fight amoungst ourselves and band together instead to help protect our hobby. As they say the more the merrier!!

I would also suggest that you go reread the FPV rules as they have changed as to how a spotter is used.

FPV flying of radio control model aircraft by AMA members is allowed only for
noncommercial purposes as a hobby/recreational and/or competition activity and must
be conducted in accordance with AMA’s current National Model Aircraft Safety Code and any
additional rules specific to a flying site/location.

3. OPERATIONS – REQUIREMENTS – LIMITATIONS:
a) FPV novice pilots undergoing training at low altitude must use a buddy-box system with
an FPV spotter, or must go to a safer altitude if no buddy-box system is used.
b) All FPV flights require an AMA FPV pilot to have an AMA FPV spotter next to him/her
maintaining VLOS with the FPV aircraft throughout its flight.
c) The FPV pilot must brief the FPV spotter on the FPV spotter’s duties, communications and
hand-over control procedures before FPV flight.
d) The AMA FPV spotter must communicate with the FPV pilot to ensure the FPV
aircraft remains within VLOS, warning the FPV pilot of approaching aircraft, and
when avoidance techniques are necessary.
e) During an FPV flight, the FPV spotter must be prepared to acquire the transmitter/control
from the FPV pilot and assume VLOS control of the model aircraft at any time safe
operation of the flight is in question.
f) If an FPV pilot experiences a safety issue that does not appear to be a brief glitch, they
must abandon FPV mode and fly VLOS.
g) Before the initial FPV flight of an FPV model aircraft and/or after any changes or repairs to
essential flight systems, the FPV model aircraft must have an R/C test flight by
conventional VLOS.
h) FPV model aircraft must use frequencies approved by the FCC for both the RC system and
the wireless video system. Pilots must meet applicable FCC licensing requirements if they
choose to operate the RC flight control system or the wireless video system on Amateur
Band frequencies.
i) AMA FPV pilots must first be capable of flying their FPV model aircraft manually
before utilizing FPV flight.

PRIVACY PROTECTION SAFEGUARDS:
The use of imaging technology for aerial surveillance with radio control model aircraft having
the capability of obtaining high-resolution photographs and/or video, or using any types of
sensors, for the collection, retention, or dissemination of surveillance data information on
individuals, homes, businesses, or property at locations where there is a reasonable
expectation of privacy is strictly prohibited by the AMA unless written expressed permission is
obtained from the individual property owners or managers.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 12:19 PM  6 years ago
Retired2011

rrElite Veteran

Lee's Summit, MO

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Good Lord what a tool.
Now that made me laugh...where did I put that popcorn?
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 12:42 PM  6 years ago
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
FPV - The way of the future
I can say this much after flying an FPV quad flight yesterday. The aircraft can very quickly get out of the sight of a person on the ground. It was very easy to control the aircraft even during video loss because the aircraft is stabilized. Even though I had no video signal, I just climbed to re-establish the link. I had a spotter, but the spotter turned useless when I exceeded 100 meters. I was flying 450 meters away. I happened to be flying at less than 30 meters during the entire flight over unpopulated ground where I have rights to fly. The safety systems are there, being as simple as turning off the transmitter for an automatic return to home.

The FAA has a very valid point. EVERYONE wants safe airspace in which to work and travel. I currently have no idea of approaching aircraft other than sound from my pilots ground station. I certainly don't want to cause any aircraft to crash. Planes cannot see me and I cannot see them, yet I seriously doubt they will be down "on-the-deck" with me at 30 meters.

What I think the FAA is missing is the training, photography and recreational aspects of this activity among sane right thinking individuals. With proper education and reasonable limits, I think that the FAA and the public could support using this technology. There are a lot of reasonable non commercial missions that can be easily flown without endangering anyone or their property.

Rather than fight among ourselves and be defeated by our own numbers, we could help the FAA recognize that these aircraft could be used as entry level devices for advancement in the FAA GA and Commercial Aviation hierarchy. Think about others as you fly. What is their perception. Are you helping to move towards technology based flights or going to wash your hands.

People... this is the future of your hobby.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 01:40 PM  6 years ago
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Elvis has left the building.

Helisplatter,

Your flight expresses many of the concerns with this new aspect of radio controlled flight, you were enabled to fly beyond your visual ability.

You said that when your visual reference failed you had a stabilized quad in the air, so this was no big deal. Now, imagine that you were piloting a 90 pod and boom helicopter like unclejane, wouldn't that be scary situation, especially if his model doesn't have return to home. Even if it did, imagine the damage that could happen when his "dumb" model flights right into a stationary object on "the way home".

LOS flying forces us to keep our models close enough to keep visual orientation. Multirotors and FPV encourage flights that are indeed too far away for LOS recovery. Return to home rescues can easily be more dangerous than helpful. The software cannot realize that obstacles may be between the current model location and the registered "home" gps coordinate. I have seen models returning to home just fly right into things like towers, poles, wires, trees.

The human observation, calculating power, and judgement are still lightyears ahead of Chinese circuit board technology, but this is only true if the modeler indeed has a full bag of piloting skills, such as line of sight orientation skills, autorotation skills.
Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 02:20 PM  6 years ago
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Just by way of FYI:
Many of these same issues (and objections) are addressed in a thread over at RCGroups. Lots of bickering and name-calling there like in this one, but it's still a good and informative read:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2192231

and there are too many threads to count over at FPVLAB:

http://fpvlab.com/forums/forumdispl...UAS-LEGISLATION

the main thread is this one:
http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread...ce-June-23-2014

all good stuff.

LS
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 02:32 PM  6 years ago
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

MyPosts All Forum Topic
The keyboard expert is copying and pasting again, but still refuses to answer simple and direct questions.

Blah, blah, blah.
Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 02:37 PM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Here's another deeply troubling FPV example:

https://rc.runryder.com/t748731p2/?p=6209109#RR
  
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-03-2014 02:39 PM  6 years ago
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I'll post the link and the quote it to save some time and effort.

https://rc.runryder.com/t748731p2/?p=6209109#RR
If your planning on flying much past 1 mile, be prepared to have deep pockets. Diversity receivers, antenna trackers, long range uhf radio's, GPS's OSD's, auto pilots for return to home. The list goes on and on. I was flying a plane with a range link uhf radio with a pair of goggles and a 600mw video transmitter and got 1-1.5 miles range. My radio would have went way farther than that, I was limited to my video range. I had a couple of close calls where I was about a mile out and lost my video for 30-45 seconds. I pulled off the goggles and tried to spot the plane in the air, but couldn't find it. I put the goggles back on and after a few seconds the video returned and I was able to make it back. It happened 1 other time. It's a really scary feeling knowing a 4-5 lb plane is 4-5 hundred feet in the air over who knows what and you have no control. You can't fly at AMA fields, FPV seems to be a bad word. It's hard to find places to fly safe. I might try a quad next and keep it closer. With Long range so many things can go wrong.
.

Very scary stuff
Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 12 pages [ <<    <     8      9     ( 10 )     11      12     NEXT    >> ] 7963 views POST REPLY
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Please go comment on FAA's Special Rule's
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 13  Topic Subscribe

Thursday, August 6 - 2:03 am - Copyright © 2000-2020 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online