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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › FAA comes down with aggressive position on model aircraft
06-26-2014 03:57 PM  3 years agoPost 61
revmix

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NJ

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Precisely
then why AMA statement is trying to make a big deal of nothing
Specifically, pilots performing 3D at events for any form of compensation/hire

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06-26-2014 04:20 PM  3 years agoPost 62
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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then why AMA statement is trying to make a big deal of nothing
Not sure what your objection is (we may be in agreement)?

LS

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06-26-2014 04:30 PM  3 years agoPost 63
revmix

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(we may be in agreement)
I know, just making a point about AMA's response

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06-26-2014 07:10 PM  3 years agoPost 64
jbiter

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Sebring, FL

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I'm sure the FAA rule will need tweaking. As a commercial pilot, I am familiar with Part 91 which was referred to for compensated flights. Consider the following excerpt:

§91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

Will this mean that spectators at large events (an open air assembly of persons) will be required to be 2000 ft from the noon time demos? Will we have to issue binoculars to our audience just so they can see what is happening?

I hope this and other issues with 91 are addressed in the final rule. To lump models flown for compensation in here just will not work well.

Jeff

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06-26-2014 08:19 PM  3 years agoPost 65
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Being paid to fly period, no matter where you do it or what you fly, is not hobby/recreation, but that wasn't changed by the interpretation. That's always been FAA's position.
They've simply clarified what being paid to fly means in this note.
We need to qualify what it means to be "paid to fly" really is. Here's my view; the short answer is if taxes are taken out of a check you receive or you get a 1099 at the end of the year, that's getting paid to fly, anything else is help. It's that simple.

Buying parts or kits at discount prices isn't getting paid.
Getting parts or kits gratis isn't getting paid.
Getting avionics, engines electronics or accessories at discount prices or gratis isn't getting paid.
Receiving help with expenses, travel or lodging to an event isn't getting paid.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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06-26-2014 08:29 PM  3 years agoPost 66
revmix

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AMA non-profit org
demos
air-show, sales pitch
sponsored pilot is just that; for compensation or hire,
therefore should be of no concern to any hobbyist

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06-27-2014 04:00 AM  3 years agoPost 67
Njheli1

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North Jersey And Boston MA

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part 91.119 does not pertain to helicopters
.......

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06-27-2014 04:24 AM  3 years agoPost 68
Chris Bergen

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Check this article Terri,
The FAA, however, interprets “compensation” very broadly. For example, the FAA has long held that logging flight time for the conduct of a flight is compensation. Most of us, and especially those of us seeking that coveted left seat at a major air carrier, know how valuable flight time can be. So, if someone requests that you use your superior piloting skills to take them to that resort of their choice and you decline any monetary payment, but still log that flight time while not paying the costs of operating the aircraft, you’ve received compensation.
Goodwill obtained from providing a flight has also been determined to be compensation. Everyone knows how valuable a favorable news article or celebrity endorsement can be. Bartering can be considered compensation, too. You may want to think twice before you take someone flying in exchange for spending a weekend at their beach house.
A pilot may also be considered to be conducting a flight for compensation even if someone else receives the compensation for the flight. How
would you like to be cited with a violation of the compensation or hire provisions of the regulations and not even receive any payment?
http://www.faa.gov/news/safety_brie...meFlyWithMe.pdf

Apparently, "compensation" can mean more than getting a check with taxes taken out....

Chris D. Bergen

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06-27-2014 04:53 AM  3 years agoPost 69
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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The FAA can interpret it any way they want but for me this is my interpretation of what "getting paid" is.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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06-27-2014 12:39 PM  3 years agoPost 70
Chris Bergen

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cassopolis, MI USA

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Of course you can. You just have to convince the FAA that your interpretation is correct, theirs is wrong, so all the sponsored pilots, reps, and field reps don't have to fly under part 91 or part 135...

Chris D. Bergen

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06-27-2014 02:40 PM  3 years agoPost 71
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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I personally don't have to worry about it. I'm just expressing an opinion concerning what is and isn't "fly for pay". Let's face it, the FAA doesn't consider modelers pilots so how can any of this apply since their definitions applies to pilots? Everyone knows that folks that fly toy helicopters and airplanes aren't pilots, so we're off the hook, IMHO.

I'm not a pilot, I'm a modeler.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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06-27-2014 02:52 PM  3 years agoPost 72
gwright

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Champaign Il

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Terry, that precedence on compensation is already set, and it unfortunately doesn't fit your definition (although it should).

Gary Wright

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06-27-2014 03:20 PM  3 years agoPost 73
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Gary, agreed but I'm not a pilot, I'm a modeler. So does this mean that somehow the FAA is now going to accept that since I fly models I'm now classified as a pilot too? I don't see how they can have it both ways.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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06-27-2014 03:37 PM  3 years agoPost 74
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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You can split hairs any way you choose. Bottom line- if you are enriched in any manner, you no longer fall under the AMA rules, and will have to obey the FAA part 91 regulations.

My cost of flying just went down. I don't have to subsidize all those name guys anymore with increased product cost.

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06-27-2014 03:55 PM  3 years agoPost 75
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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At the moment the FAA is still the 800lb gorilla in the room.
Events have transpired recently to limit that gorilla's actions.
. . . we will see how far that goes . . . hopefully a lot further.

Congress put language in the law to protect modelers from the FAA.
The FAA doesn't like that so they are trying to do an end-around.

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06-27-2014 04:00 PM  3 years agoPost 76
revmix

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NJ

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not a pilot, a modeler
an operator
fly toy helicopters
'if' model is as per P.L.112-95/336

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06-27-2014 04:20 PM  3 years agoPost 77
revmix

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paper plane Judge
The FAA doesn't like that

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06-27-2014 05:38 PM  3 years agoPost 78
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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not a pilot, a modeler
an operator

fly toy helicopters
'if' model is as per P.L.112-95/336
I read the document, the term "operator" is ambiguous at best.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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06-27-2014 06:00 PM  3 years agoPost 79
revmix

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NJ

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by AMA ~ model aircraft pilot
ambiguous at best.
hence the Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft

modelaircraft.org
2. Model aircraft pilots will:
h) Not operate model aircraft while under the influence of alcohol or while using any drug that could adversely affect the pilot’s ability to safely control the model.

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06-27-2014 07:07 PM  3 years agoPost 80
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Where's the FAA interpretation here? AMA interpretation doesn't count.

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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