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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersEngines › Motor bogging down and looses power at liftoff
06-24-2014 07:58 PM  4 years agoPost 21
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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looks damn near perfect to me for a 2 stroke plug. as long as the insulator has a "milk chocolate" color...your doing great.

once its starts to look ashy (pink or gray) your in trouble due to too lean or insufficient oil content.

or the opposite:
wet dark brown or black with crusty stuff, which means either wrong or too much oil content.

usually if your plug looks great but the engine is having reliablity issues, I look at issues with ignition, sealing or setup both mechanical and programing.

keep in mind though its not the Golden rule in some cases as some modern synthetics at higher ratios will produce a very clean plug but still be running in the optimal mixture range for temp and needle settings.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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06-24-2014 08:13 PM  4 years agoPost 22
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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Carb air leak test...
Run finger under carb where it meets insulator, if its wet with fuel, you have an air leak.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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06-25-2014 04:05 AM  3 years agoPost 23
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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I'll be picking up a can of compressed air tomorrow.

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06-26-2014 03:33 AM  3 years agoPost 24
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Plug look's Great - If any thing a touch lean and it's so new you really can't tell yet. But excellent but for me a touch lean

Here's pic of One of Mine : When I was Just Coming out of break in and Running Coleman or Ozark and Bel Ray Syn.

You can actually tell which side is exhaust and intake by the flame color or pattern on the plug.

Note the insulator is sterile but the plug barrel is showing LOT's of soft un burn't deposit : Synthetic - Even my Piston Tops have the same soft deposit's. Non Char

I Also runn my motor's slightly fat intentionally because they warm up under load in the air or hovering they thin down a bit as the temp come up.

Your Issue maybe NOT a Motor Issue But your Pitch Curve to Throttle Butterfly opening relation ship position.

These motors happen to develop most power right at about 70% butter fly opening.

Plot the Pitch to the throttle Curve :

I do Not run a Governor either : I let the curve's shake hand's -
Next big hurtle for me is Battery Up Grade's

If I told dRa what carb's I still run he would slap me 1.6.3

greyeagle

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06-26-2014 03:56 AM  3 years agoPost 25
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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Got the compressed air, but it's been raining. When you say 70% butterfly opening, is that equal to 70% throttle curve where 0% is closed and 100% is fully open?

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06-26-2014 05:09 AM  3 years agoPost 26
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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70% is the mechanical opening of the Butter Fly in the Bore of the Ventury Throat of the Carb. Maybe a little more of the opening but not that much.

That last 30% of the swing or Opening of the Butter Fly you May Not get much more Power - Just servo swing

Just for Topic :

Let's say your Hover pitch is around + 5 or + 6 { mechanically} from your gauge -- that part of the mechanical pitch curve should be the ramping into the 60 % to 80% Mechanically opening or MAX Torque Produced.

You maybe putting the pitch in -- LONG Prior to the motor reaching it's throttle position for Power . Mechanically

The TWO MUST Shake Hand's :

Write down your Total Pitch Travel : Top to Bottom In the amount of Point's you have -- Using a pitch gauge :

- 6 + { +8 } or your Total Pitch travel is 14 degrees to work with

If your Hover pitch is say + 5 that motor must be in it Power curve.

The Radio Curves are UNIT's for reference not Mechanical measurement's

greyeagle

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06-27-2014 05:28 PM  3 years agoPost 27
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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Here are my results from the field this morning. I tried the freon and there motor didn't react at all so i say there are no air leaks. I put moved my 3/4 stick throttle point to 50% (100 is throttle mechanically wide open). That helped more and got my rpms up. I then adjusted the low needle to about 1 1/8 and that seemed to help a little more. Lastly, i checked my pitch curve. I hsd somebody watch and tell me my stick position when in a steady hover. I was just a little above mid-stick. This on the bench translated to 3 degrees of pitch which seemed quite low. My pitch is -9, -6, 0, 8, 11 degrees with 0 pitch at mid stick. Something does not seem right with my pitch. The motor didn't seem to have any loss of power.

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06-27-2014 11:40 PM  3 years agoPost 28
tyfast27

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Dubois, Wyoming

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Sounds like your getting close to figuring it out, but I was wondering why your throttle is only 50% at ¾ stick? Maybe I am misreading your latest post but my other question is that, you say your positive pitch curve is 8, and eleven right? So wouldn't that mean at ¾ stick your pitch would be 8 degrees instead of 3? I'm far far from being a pro but I'm just very interested in this thread and trying to put it all together. I was also thinking that 3 degrees is far from enough pitch to sustain a hover but like I said, I'm still learning every day so I may be totally wrong Good luck and please keep us posted I'm very curious to find your problem and I'll be cheering for ya because I know how frustrating it can be! Haha

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06-27-2014 11:45 PM  3 years agoPost 29
tyfast27

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Dubois, Wyoming

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O okay, I just reread your post and you say 3 degrees a lil above mid stick. But still wouldn't that be more like 6 degrees or so according to your current pitch curve???? Reason I'm asking about all this is that if I'm reading and thinking correctly this info doesn't seem to add up????? Just wondering if there could possibly be a problem in the gyro or maybe even your setup perhaps? Hope I'm helping and not hindering

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06-28-2014 12:22 AM  3 years agoPost 30
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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@tyfast27. My mid stick pitch is 0. My spotter said when hovering i was just slightly above mid stick. When i landed, i put my pitch gauge on and at the hover stick position per my spotter and it was right around 3 degrees. Regarding the throttle, gassers are different than nitros beacuse it is a butterfly carb. Most gassers have a throttle curve of 0/15/20/30/100. It has to do with the carb opening. I typically fly nitros and this is my first gasser undertaking so i am by no means an expert but am learning.

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06-28-2014 02:25 AM  3 years agoPost 31
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Yee HAA !!!
You are on a Absolutely WONDERFUL JOURNEY !!!

My Hover pitches typically fall a round + 3 to + 4 , But Also dependent on Blades, Temp and RPM . It's ALL dynamic.

I also fly Old SChool 9C's so I can individually use separate trims to adjust my Hover Pitch ( + 1 or -1 } and One to adjust the Motor RpM slightly at the Hover Point. Pretty Yummy based upon Temp / Season and Condition'.

Noticed you have -9 to + 11 or -9 + ( 11 ) = ( 20 ) Total Collective Pitch { Travel Ability }

That's Wonderful ! It's a Bunch to work with !
Remember the shaking hand's part ?

Now : Please think : and Don't get Vapor Locked too Hard

A. Do you Mechanically NEED - 9 ????

B. Do you Really NEED the + 11 ????

"" Unless you FLY with Rah who has {Offenhouser's or Cosworth motor's } Can you put down that kinda H.P. to the Blades ??

Your Hover Point is at + 3 to + 4

THe TWO must Shake hand's : Your Answer is with a Piece of Paper and writing numbers down looking at them - Remember the Data on the Radio is a UNIT on a graph point : Not a mechanical measurement they Morph as a combined team.

greyeagle

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06-28-2014 04:12 AM  3 years agoPost 32
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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I don't quite understand the paper plotting of the curves; any place i can read about this further? I could decrease my pitch at full collective as that would be less load on the motor.

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06-28-2014 05:24 AM  3 years agoPost 33
geomecc

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Long Island ,NY

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all that sounds confusing. how is ur throttle linkage set up? are you using the "Malory" method or nitro setup?

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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06-28-2014 06:19 AM  3 years agoPost 34
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Let's see if we can do this with out a white paper or going over the Handel Bars.

TOP + Pitch maybe + 8 " You can't pull +11
NEG - Pitch maybe -6 " You Need - 9 ???

Strike two VErtical Lines on paper :

Label ONE Motor // The Other Pitch : 5 Points on each = Equally Spaced

Pitch = Top of the Line + 8 Bottom of the Line - 6
Zero is right in the Middle
+ 3 is Just off ZERO

( This is Looking at a CURVE } but just at data { Number's }
Look at the distance' on the Vertical LINE - it's just a line

The Line has got 5 points to view . Look at those Distance's !!!!

That distance -- -Is the LENGTH of the Curve over the DWELL of the servo wheel travel or ARC as it rotates { the sweetness }

The Motor Line 70% THROTTLE is located where your Hover point is +3

Where are the ZERO POINT's ?? The Neutral's ???

ANy thing above 70% Throttle is + 3 too + 8 Positive

For Safety sake : 70% Throttle is ALSO maybe - 3 too maybe - 4 Negative too start or you may hoppity Hop or prang if you get nervous and jerky.

ALSO NOTE !!!! at 70% Throttle that Motor is singing !!!! Do you NEED ALL OF IT ?? you a Up - Side down Guy ? or tone it down a bit ??? in the Negative pitch .

WHY we Have V1 / V2 / V/3 Idle Up's { Switching to different Curve's }
Think of those Like GEAR BOXES

WHY a RPM TACH is Handy or if you got a good BUDDY that has one to see if your turning WAY too HOT Over speeding.
So he say's your Nutt's !!! ( Hence the Governor's }

It ALSO has 5 Points :

With looking at both lines : You will see the HAND SHAKE

NOW when you see the CURVE on Screen the relationship breaks mentally out.

WHy you see guy's Alway's playing with CURVES

It's OLD SCHOOL : But UBER VALUABLE to Know how to Dance with the Dragon

You do the Home work - If you get stumped ?? I'll toss some basic number's : Like to see you connect with what the graph's are showing and how you can Stretch the distance or Dwell

P.S> Franney & John !!!! HOWDY

HEy that sucker is a bit Blurred

I'm actually shifting point's on a curve or stretching the distance between two point's ( Maybe 0 to + 3 }

greyeagle

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06-29-2014 09:42 PM  3 years agoPost 35
jackp332

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Claremont, Nh USA

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How's it doing now- any improvement?

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06-29-2014 11:17 PM  3 years agoPost 36
cobra gun ship

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Hampton Roads, VA

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Have you tried the coil? Mine went bad, engine bogged and had no power, replaced it and engine was good as new.

Take offs are optional, landings are mandatory!

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06-29-2014 11:39 PM  3 years agoPost 37
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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Things seem to be going better. I decreased the pitch to 9 degrees at full collective and 6 degrees at 3/4 stick. Leaned the low out to 1 1/8 or there about. I kept my throttle curve at 50 for 3/4 stick and 100 at full stick. It seems to be doing much better.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersEngines › Motor bogging down and looses power at liftoff
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