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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › Will racism ever end?
06-07-2014 01:01 PM  4 years agoPost 281
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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And now the definition of poor is $15 an hour. Only the scale changes, nothing else. The prices will all change to make sure that you are still poor at that rate.
The only ones that make out are the ones making percentage, like the tax man!
Wrong. Have you ever heard of the "law of supply and demand"? It's a critical concept in capitalism and what makes capitalism such a successful economic system.

LS

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06-07-2014 01:15 PM  4 years agoPost 282
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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And you have it all exactly backwards! Under supply and demand there would be no minimum wage law at all.

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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06-07-2014 01:17 PM  4 years agoPost 283
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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And you have is exactly backwards! Under supply and demand there would be no minimum wage law at all.
But how much demand would there be for your products from people who had to work for free?

LS

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06-07-2014 01:19 PM  4 years agoPost 284
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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And you have is exactly backwards! Under supply and demand there would be no minimum wage law at all.
Under supply and demand if a product gets to expensive because of high labor costs, that product disappears from the market place without very dramatic changes somewhere in the product line.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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06-07-2014 01:20 PM  4 years agoPost 285
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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Who works for free? Besides the person trying to get a business started? It's hard enough to get people to work for more than minimum wage these days.

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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06-07-2014 01:23 PM  4 years agoPost 286
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Under supply and demand if a product gets to expensive because of high labor costs, that product disappears from the market place without very dramatic changes somewhere in the product line.
Wrong. Remember: paid labor also participates in the economy as a consumer base according to its spending power. Only Conservatives view investing in a workforce as wasted money. That's partly why our economy and labor situation is in the state that it's in today - mentalities like Dennis'.

LS

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06-07-2014 01:25 PM  4 years agoPost 287
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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They work fork for FREE in CHINA and North Korea and India and in Pakistan and in MANY other Place's.

They work for a Bowel of what ever they can find in 12 Hr's per day to eat.

Why Mr. CHI has Obama has made repeatable visit's. They do NOT have food. Polluted them selves with Industry.
Uncle Jane :

And you have is exactly backwards! Under supply and demand there would be no minimum wage law at all.
But how much demand would there be for your products from people who had to work for free?

LS

greyeagle

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06-07-2014 01:26 PM  4 years agoPost 288
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Who works for free?
Now you're catching on, so I'll ask the question a different way to highlight the problem: How much demand is there for your products from people not paid enough to afford your asking price?
Besides the person trying to get a business started? It's hard enough to get people to work for more than minimum wage these days.
Do you know why that is? Hint: have you ever tried to survive on minimum wage? Have you ever built a successful business on the policy of an underpaid workforce? How do efforts like that tend to do in the long-term?

LS

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06-07-2014 01:33 PM  4 years agoPost 289
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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But you are in fact wrong as well because the competition is world wide so when domestic labor is too high the products produced aren't competitive in the market and everyone loses their job. Then they are all loaded into the government system and that loads down all of the other businesses that are paying for that system.
It's eye opening to talk to leftists that think that the economy is somehow just magically supported by business owners. And that they have a bottomless pit of money while giving them no chance of them competing in the world market.

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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06-07-2014 01:42 PM  4 years agoPost 290
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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But you are in fact wrong as well because the competition is world wide so when domestic labor is too high the products produced aren't competitive in the market and everyone loses their job.
Do you know why that is? Why has domestic consumption dropped to the point that US-based businesses have been forced to go to these foreign markets (not only for consumers but also for labor)? Hint: Remember the labor-market-participant thingy I introduced earlier.
It's eye opening to talk to leftists that think that the economy is somehow just magically supported by business owners. And that they have a bottomless pit of money while giving them no chance of them competing in the world market.
And I'm equally mystified by the Conservative idea that market consumption is also supported by magic (consumers with fists full of dollars just appear out of nowhere). And that they don't feel the need to invest in their own success. And can't understand how and why the US consumer base is becoming a wasteland.

The motto of the Republican/Tea Party economic policy is truly "we keep cuttin' this board and cuttin' and cuttin' and it's still too short!"

LS

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06-07-2014 01:53 PM  4 years agoPost 291
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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And can't understand how and why the US consumer base is becoming a wasteland.
And now we are back to too many people living off of the government and thinking that they should have a millionaire's life with money to blow on toys instead of working to achieve. And of course they won't work for anything less than a middle income wage because the government pays you for nothing and a business has to have you producing for them to be able to pay you and all of the government liabilities that come with you as an employee.

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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06-07-2014 02:01 PM  4 years agoPost 292
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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And now we are back to too many people living off of the government
Again, why do you think that is? Why would the government dole be a more desirable alternative to being out in the workforce? Think reeeal hard, Doc.. think... Remember again the "law of supply and demand" thingy I talked about earlier also.
and thinking that they should have a millionaire's life with money to blow on toys instead of working to achieve.
What if you're a toy manufacturer? Say you produced, oh let's see, RC helis? Would you really be whistling that tune in that case? Hint: I bet not.
And of course they won't work for anything less than a middle income wage because the government pays you for nothing and a business has to have you producing for them to be able to pay you and all of the government liabilities that come with you as an employee.
See, all this is really just pseudo-code for "I don't want to invest in my business and do the heavy lifting success would really require. I just want success handed to me through no effort or investment on my part. I expect $15/hr quality work, loyalty and ROI for an actual cost to me of only $3.35/hr. I want rewards in excess of my efforts and costs".

You're just as bad, in fact worse, then these welfare-dole slackers running around in your imagination.

Mentalities like yours are why American businesses fail at the extraordinary rate that they do and why Conservative economic policies are becoming so "successful" at turning America into a 3rd world economy.

It's you and your attitudes that are at fault, here.

LS

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06-07-2014 02:16 PM  4 years agoPost 293
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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It's you and your attitudes that are at fault, here.
Take a look in the mirror there buddy! Why should businesses be made to pay more for labor than the world market allows? Why shouldn't supply and demand set the price?
As a manager for a small manufacturer stuck between ownership and the shop employees I live this everyday. We lose business to India and China while having our benefits cut by idiotic programs like Obamacare, while struggling to find decent employees at a starting wage three dollars above minimum wage, all in an area of high unemployment!
Social engineering is the answer and it always fails miserably. People who are ignorant of history always try the same things over and over and can never understand why they fail.

Anyway, thanks for the civil discussion UJ. I will have to catch you later.

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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06-07-2014 02:24 PM  4 years agoPost 294
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Take a look in the mirror there buddy! Why should businesses be made to pay more for labor than the world market allows? Why shouldn't supply and demand set the price?
Because businesses built on Conservative Republican mentalities like yours should fail. If you're not willing to make the investments in America required to succeed in America, you should not be allowed to do business in America. You should go setup shop in those other places, not here.
As a manager for a small manufacturer stuck between ownership and the shop employees I live this everyday. We lose business to India and China while having our benefits cut by idiotic programs like Obamacare, while struggling to find decent employees at a starting wage three dollars above minimum wage, all in an area of high unemployment!
Social engineering is the answer and it always fails miserably. People who are ignorant of history always try the same things over and over and can never understand while they fail.
Exactly. That's precisely why your business should be allowed to fail - it's built on a completely failed, Conservative business model - it's got Death March already built into it. You're unwilling to invest more than a measly little pittance of 3 bucks/hr over minimum wage in your American workforce, just to sell your products to foreign markets rather than US markets. You somehow expect to get richer than Bill Gates on a budget so shoe-string that even the local crack addicts won't come in off the street and fill out an application. I'd rather go on the dole than work for you too! You whine and whine about "Globalization", only until your efforts and costs come into the picture. When it comes to labor, suddenly you're all for "Globalization"! When was the last time you or indeed any Republican whined about "big government" import tariffs on your foreign competitors' products?

That's a formula for disaster and not what our country is all about.

The government should force you and your business out of the American labor market - we don't need or deserve businesses unwilling to do their part to insure their own success in it. Our unemployment lines are already long enough; we don't need you just making them longer. Abroad maybe, but not here. That's not how the US became a world superpower before - instead, that's only how it's being dismantled into a 3rd world service economy and a country of paupers and people living on the street.

If I were you, I'd look for another job and fast!

LS

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06-07-2014 03:39 PM  4 years agoPost 295
koppter

rrApprentice

Virginia

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unfortunately, UJ, I don't think that looking for another job is in the cards for our friend. A manager of a staff that is making three dollars above minimum wage isn't likely making much more than they are, and is likely uneducated, and unskilled, except in his narrow line of work. I doubt he understands inventory models, can read a balance sheet, or can measure break even points. I suspect he has never read a book on management. And for this what is the market supposed to pay?

The business owner may be pulling a living wage out the business, but capitalism is built on a concept of finding the least expense for the greatest return, so there is no need to pay a manager a dollar more than what is required to fill the position. And since our friend says it is an area of high unemployment, one can infer that there are other qualified applicants who can easily replace him. So rather than broadening his skills and making himself more attractive and more expensive to the market, taking steps that would move him to the right on the supply/demand curve, he chooses to waste his time on this forum, blaming liberals and other for his place in life.

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06-07-2014 03:54 PM  4 years agoPost 296
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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unfortunately, UJ, I don't think that looking for another job is in the cards for our friend. A manager of a staff that is making three dollars above minimum wage isn't likely making much more than they are, and is likely uneducated, and unskilled, except in his narrow line of work. I doubt he understands inventory models, can read a balance sheet, or can measure break even points. I suspect he has never read a book on management. And for this what is the market supposed to pay?
Well again, who's at fault for those conditions? Where did the notion of "you get what you pay for" go in American hiring practices, would be the first question I would ask if it were my business and my a$$ on the line.

The last thing I'd be doing is whining about "Obummer" oppressing me with "Obummer care" and constantly Keeping Me Down, or whining about the Chinese like Conservatives do. Instead, I'd focus like the proverbial Clinton "laser beam" on my hiring practices and willingness to invest in my business. If my prosperity was resting on a warehouse full of crack addicts ready to walk out at a moment's notice, I'd sure drop the "Obummer is oppressing me, awwwww, awwwww" crybaby nonsense in about 2 seconds.
The business owner may be pulling a living wage out the business, but capitalism is built on a concept of finding the least expense for the greatest return, so there is no need to pay a manager a dollar more than what is required to fill the position.
Not true, actually. In fact, a smart business knows that a little more investment in this area can achieve a huge delta in ROI. Again, you get what you pay for, even in labor.
And since our friend says it is an area of high unemployment, one can infer that there are other qualified applicants who can easily replace him. So rather than broadening his skills and making himself more attractive and more expensive to the market, taking steps that would move him to the right on the supply/demand curve, he chooses to waste his time on this forum, blaming liberals and other for his place in life.
It's possible he's a victim of his own pay-what-the-market-will-bear policy. He's on the other end of the stick of a cheapskate employer, such that he can't really afford to invest in his own future - that's what it sounds like to me from his description of his workplace. An education, for example, costs a lot of money. Our standard of living overall is really expensive...

If so, he probably doesn't realize he's doing the cuttin' and cuttin' the board and it's still too short behavior of his Republican heros, but the board is actually his very own arms and legs. Dennis has this problem in spades, for example, so huey may have come down with it also.

I bet a lot of our country's condition is rooted in that problem...

LS

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06-07-2014 04:10 PM  4 years agoPost 297
koppter

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Virginia

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Sort of....the delta in ROI will only occur is the investment is made in areas to which the business will benefit - increased efficiency, greater market access..and so on. Many business owners don't have the foresight when it comes to investment, and rely on following the market rather than driving it.

My first job out of college was working in the small business department of a multinational accounting firm, so I saw firsthand the differences in management from the business owners who saw their businesses as their own piggy bank, and others who poured every last nickel back into the business as part of their expansion. And yes, the ones who grew weren't just the ones that invested, it was that they knew where to invest.

My sense is that our friend is working for someone who is comfortable with the return he is receiving and may understand the investment model but sees limited return due to economic factors or can't afford to invest, or has other investments that provide greater return. Either way, I don't see our friend having much economic mobility and I think we agree on that.

As far as Dennis....Dennis lives in a world where he can pretend he is both omniscient and revered. He is, in every sense, Lord of the Flies.

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06-07-2014 04:16 PM  4 years agoPost 298
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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unfortunately, UJ, I don't think that looking for another job is in the cards for our friend. A manager of a staff that is making three dollars above minimum wage isn't likely making much more than they are, and is likely uneducated, and unskilled, except in his narrow line of work. I doubt he understands inventory models, can read a balance sheet, or can measure break even points. I suspect he has never read a book on management. And for this what is the market supposed to pay?
The business owner may be pulling a living wage out the business, but capitalism is built on a concept of finding the least expense for the greatest return, so there is no need to pay a manager a dollar more than what is required to fill the position. And since our friend says it is an area of high unemployment, one can infer that there are other qualified applicants who can easily replace him. So rather than broadening his skills and making himself more attractive and more expensive to the market, taking steps that would move him to the right on the supply/demand curve, he chooses to waste his time on this forum, blaming liberals and other for his place in life.
Too many stupid assumptions in this post to warrant a serious response so I'll let go as pure ignorance.

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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06-07-2014 04:24 PM  4 years agoPost 299
koppter

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Virginia

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no please...I'm sure that UJ and certainly I would love to know what credentials you possess that would allow you to move...

yes, there are many assumptions, and those assumptions are the results of years of experience....

the other day FHB said he lives in a nice neighborhood for which he pays $600 a month for an apartment. He also said his neighbor lives off the government. So I did an apartment search in his city and found nothing that could be called nice for $600. So...experience tells me that when you live next to someone who is living off the government and the prevailing rates for apartments is far higher than $600, it probably isn't a "nice" neighborhood.

same thing applies to you. The local manager of every fast food joint in town makes a few cents more than the staff, but that's a long way from being a middle manager in a Fortune 500.

So we're calling you out Huey....UJ and I both have educations that allow us to choose our paths..how about you?

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06-07-2014 04:34 PM  4 years agoPost 300
es1co2bar3

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winnetka california

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RABBIT TOOT] No one is sticking a bull eyes on business es to more than they can, the Democrat is talking about company the is fully profitable years round. "Those make billions in profits while paying the minimum.

I have ask the question to those who think we shouldn't raised the minimum standard,

why would it be ok for people 1st hour of work they can only buy a gallon of milks and a box of cereal?
While the CEO make 300 x that amounts.

"It s bad for companies to compete in the USA when a part of
that company is cultivating cheap labor in another country.
this's some BS to me American factory worker can't compete
with worker in China or India working for the same company

because of the company tax and medical expenses vs their capital gain and profits.

The government can reverse the free socialized help and let private companies pay people a livable wage along with the money given to company to help low wage earner.

make more sense to me.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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