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HomeScale✈️AircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion › three blade phasing issue 300C
04-25-2014 07:05 PM  6 years ago
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stihlgasser

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st louis, MO

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three blade phasing issue 300C
I am in the process of setting up a three blade head on a Century schweizer 300. Using IKON and align 615 servos. Phasing was set up mechanically. Links straight up and down , which accounted for about 45 degree offset. I mounted servos and set phasing arm (anti rotation bracket) to account for the rest of the 90 degree offset. When one blade is over the tail boom and i input elevator the blade does not move. I thought this is how it should be. When i run it up to zero pitch, and input elevator, my rotor tilts left at about 45 degree. I have to input right about 45 degree to get rotor to tilt forward. Do i need to rotate my phase arm 45 degree clockwise to bring the rotor tilt to proper angle point or did i miss something in the setup of phasing? If i rotate it then the blade over the tail will move when i input elevator control. Would appreciate any help on figuring what i missed or did wrong. Thanks

don
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04-26-2014 12:58 AM  6 years ago
teamdavey2001

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Sunnyvale, California, USA

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What do you mean by "phasing arm" and what head are you using?
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04-26-2014 02:28 AM  6 years ago
stihlgasser

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the swash plate anti rotation bracket(phasing arm)as i have a arm on mine that can be adjusted rotationally instead of the standard slide bracket that you see on most heli's that is in a fixed position bolted into the frame. and i have the standard phasing bracket( single arm swash driver) for the upper swash that i have adjusted to set the links straight up and down in line with the main shaft. the head is from century heli. no brand name on it. it has no phasing set in it. the pic with it shows the links angled and set to 90 degrees for phasing with the swash driver. The balls on the blade holders are at about 45 to the center line of the feathering shaft and the center of the main shaft input angle wise. When rotating the links to straighten them up, using the swash driver, that changes the 90 input to about 45 input. what has to be adjusted to equal out the straightening up of the links? this is all being done mechanically.don
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04-26-2014 05:07 AM  6 years ago
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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Hi. I think you have everything right. It's just that you are so used to seeing a standard flybar head or a standard flybarless two blade head, you thing that the swash must pitch forward in order for the helicopter to move forward. In fact, no, what you have set us pretty much what the full scale helicopter has.

If I read it correctly, you set your pitch links straight up and down and locked them in position with the swash driver. You then added a phase offset so that when you move the elevator stick forward with one blade right over the boom, the blade remains motionless. That will let the swash plate tilt forward and to the left for a right hand rotating head OR forward and to the right for a left hand turning head. My AS350 is right hand rotation and the swash moves forward and left when I push forward on the stick. It is a three blade head and it rotates clockwise.

I did a video a while ago and ignoring what I did with the servos, your helicopter should look something like this. At least, I a fairly sure of it. Hope this helps.

Don

Watch at YouTube

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04-26-2014 05:26 AM  6 years ago
stihlgasser

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st louis, MO

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yes exactly. you nailed it right on the head. So I am seeing what I should see. I haven't tried lifting it off the ground yet, so I have'nt had the chance to see how it will travel. I do understand that at this point I am rough set and that I may need to make a small adjustment to the phasing to get it right on. Yes, it is different to see the rotor disc reaction for the three bladed head when you are used to two bladed visuals. So as i get this , even with the strange appearance of how the disc responds ,my heli will stil move forward when I input a forward command. Thanks for the reassurance that everything was right.don
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04-26-2014 10:02 AM  6 years ago
stihlgasser

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st louis, MO

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I'll take and post some pics for those who are interested in seeing what i have done Saturday evening.don
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04-26-2014 02:15 PM  6 years ago
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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Yes you have it correct , when you phase electronically the swash will react strangely ( to what you may be used to) but if the blade over the tail does not move you are good.
This is an effect of flight known as gyroscopic precession . All rotor heads are effected by it... Our models are no exception . Welcome to science!!
Home of the "Sea Cobra".....
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04-26-2014 02:26 PM  6 years ago
stihlgasser

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st louis, MO

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Just got home from work. double checking everything and then headed for the field. will post some pics and test flight results later today . thanks for everyone's input. Time to go fly!don
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04-26-2014 08:52 PM  6 years ago
stihlgasser

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st louis, MO

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Added some pics. more in my gallery. WELL, Got two test flights today. The phasing is dead on ,no adjustment needed. This is a scratch built from full scale prints and 3 view drawings. Funkey canopy and fins. century mechanics fit into the scratch built stainless steel tube frame. I decided to do this project just to see how easily it would be to build from ground up, no kit and actually get it to fly well. It flies very well. about 1350 head speed on 6s 5000 mah , hyperion 4020/910 motor. 470mm mains. I do have a vibration in the head that I am going to have to fine balance out. caused by the one arm swash driver. extended main shaft and everything crowded at the top of the shaft kinda dictates that. Again I thank everyone who input their help to me. Dondon
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04-27-2014 05:16 AM  6 years ago
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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This style Century driver should balance out well.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!
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04-27-2014 03:21 PM  6 years ago
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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By the looks of it Barry, that is what Don has on his 300. That is the first time I have seen a setup where you can change the locking point of the anti-rotation guide and I like the way it is done. Now looking at it, I was unaware that the Century kit could be built up with that much detail as opposed to just the canopy and tanks bolted onto a pod and boom chassis. That looks really good. Take care.

Don
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04-27-2014 05:31 PM  6 years ago
Mojave

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Hi Don, yeah my mistake. I was looking at your driver pic This heli has quite a unique anti rotation set up. But IMHO, it's just easier to adjust the phasing in the FBL program and leave the mechanical set up in the nominal postion for good link geometry. As for his minor vibration, I don't think it's driver related, but ya never know. I'm using this identical driver and have zero issues with vibes.
Barry
All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!
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04-27-2014 06:11 PM  6 years ago
stihlgasser

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st louis, MO

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I Have the entire head and shaft on a highpoint balancer right now ( blades included and perfectly balanced on the cg) and the heavy side is always the driver arm side . By quite a significant amount. It is most likely due more to the fact that everything is set high at the top of the main shaft, well above the bearing. I am slowly adding small weight at different spots opposite side of driver to find right weight and best location to put it. each step the balance s getting better. my installation is not stock to any kit or Co. this entire frame was scratch built in a jig fixture and tig welded together, and mech install is scratched together from quite a few different sources. Tail boom is Tarot, T-rex, and JR Vibe 90. I like doing things mechanically and relying only on electrical tuning when needed. I haven't looked at it that close but i don't think I can adjust for phasing in the IKON anyway.as far as link geometry, it's just a matter of how you make the mounts for your servos.thanks for the input. I hope that this entire post helps out someone who may have questions that need answers. Dondon
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04-27-2014 06:35 PM  6 years ago
co_rotorhead

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Centennial, CO, USA

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i don't think I can adjust for phasing in the IKON anyway
You actually can adjust the phasing angle electronically with the IKON. It is under the Advanced menu. (From the pull-down menu: View-->Advanced-->CCPM-->Show swashplate phasing)
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04-27-2014 07:42 PM  6 years ago
stihlgasser

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Thanks for letting that be known. I have never accessed the advanced menu on the IKON yet. I have three of them in use, also the mini v-bar. I am extremely pleased with the performance of both units. I have yet to need anything past the basic setup on either controller. Both are very user friendly. Dondon
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04-28-2014 12:06 PM  6 years ago
Thumper217

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Slidell, LA - USA

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Great job on the build Don. I really like all the custom work especially the frame and and skids. I've messed around a little with a couple of Lama's trying my hand at making the frames from scratch and have really enjoyed it but yours came out a lot better than mine.

Enjoy flying that bird and thanks for sharing. Would love to see some more photos and video.

Andrew
Thumper
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04-28-2014 03:08 PM  6 years ago
stihlgasser

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st louis, MO

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Andrew,Thank You for the compliment. It's a lot of hard work and attention to detail in the planning. There are more photos in my gallery, also some of my other scale birds. It took a month just to get this frame jigged and ready to weld. It's something you gotta love, to do it. Dondon
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04-28-2014 04:55 PM  6 years ago
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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Nice Job.. glad it worked out well. Nice 47 too!!! Home of the "Sea Cobra".....
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05-04-2014 02:03 PM  6 years ago
stihlgasser

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st louis, MO

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Got the balancing done. made a few small adjustments in the IKON. It's flying very well. It gives a very good scale flight characteristic.don
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HomeScale✈️AircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion › three blade phasing issue 300C
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