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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Is it illegal to fly anywhere?
04-28-2014 01:43 AM  6 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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Not having a spotter is not "interpretation" when it comes to breaking the rules of the AMA. It has nothing to do with "preconceived notions". It's right there in black and white. Anyone who knowingly breaks the rules deserves all the crap in the world that could ever come to them if there's an accident and another person and/or another's property is harmed...period.
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04-28-2014 02:56 AM  6 years ago
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Not having a spotter is not "interpretation" when it comes to breaking the rules of the AMA. It has nothing to do with "preconceived notions". It's right there in black and white. Anyone who knowingly breaks the rules deserves all the crap in the world that could ever come to them if there's an accident and another person and/or another's property is harmed...period.
I don't disagree with you, but you're coming across as particularly upset about one or two infractions of a rule. In fact, I think a little more is upsetting you here than a simple perceived lightness about the rules.

Do you know how many times I've broken the spotter rule in, say, the last 5 months? Do you know what my attitude is towards rules at flying fields in general?

How many times have you broken an AMA rule at your field? How aggressively do you police others who break the rules? How about yourself?

Think about it. And think about your reaction to me, or who/what you perceive me to be.

LS
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04-28-2014 03:53 AM  6 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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is it illegal to fly anywhere?

when plankards make you feel unwelcome look for a place you are welcome, maybe not illegal but not a club, just make sure extremely few people are present while you fly.

How you like this one? One of the very last parcels of undeveloped land with the city. Beyond the trees it is also empty and will be developed in years to come, empty for now

Plankers are a little jealous of helis. Helis take off and land anywhere, hover, do amazing 3d, anything a plank can do and MORE. It kind of hurts to show up a planker with a heli and signal they don't know it all. Helis are harder than a plank, some chumps like things easy. A pally of mine bought several foamies and want's to fly, but I told him he's gonna need a landing strip, helis don't need a landing strip. Planks are always in ff and never piro or fly backward, sideways, tic toc, and bunch of other things. Anyhow, it's nice to be appreciated but don't expect it from guys who inside are envious and wish they were smart enough to fly a heli but may not ever be. There are LOTs of lug nuts out there LOTS.

I see a lot of lackadaisical plank flight, heli flight too, maybe the 3d intensity is too rush. Personally, I would mock plankers in a playful sense, do everything they do and do it backwards, inverted, in piros, and with a scale canopy on shaped from styrene and monocote skin, look a bit like a tard but outfly them at their own game. Not to piss on them but to introduce the amazing capabilities of a helicopter.

Is it illegal to fly anywhere? technically no unless stated otherwise, in that case you will be asked to pack up and leave. In the case of trespass if your heli causes damage to another trespasser liability will fall on the land owner if no traspassing signs have not be erected in plain sight. Just stay away from large helis that provoke curiosity more than a small 450, maybe 500. If a mechanical failure occurs the blame cannot rest on anyone. It will be an act of god if you had nothing to do with it, people understand, that's why there's no fault insurance.

Take care and be aware, stop, look, listen, is everything going to go well? Sometimes you can hear your heli change before something bad happens, take nothing for granted, NOTHING.

At clubs you have to worry about other flyers taking you out, how you gonna win?
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04-28-2014 02:59 PM  6 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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I started messing with model helicopters over a decade ago(Nexus 30 nitro). I flew it about ten times and learned how to hover tail in. Obviously probably didn't learn much but I did manage to get the model in the air without the help of any forums or anyone else for that matter. That was my first foray into model helicopters and I didn't return until a little over two years ago. I wouldn't consider myself an out going person but I'm no introvert by any means. When I got back into the hobby I asked on the forums where would be a good place to shop locally for heli or hobby related stuff since the hobby stores I grew up with are long and gone. I went to the recommended hobby store. The store was fairly busy(It's a tiny shop) and the owner kept saying I'll be right with you. 5 minutes, 10 minutes, another I'll be right with you and an hour later I left the store frustrated with a couple grand in my pocket thinking if he doesn't want it someone else does. After posting my experience and actually emailing the store owner I figured I'd go back and give the guy another chance. It was really no big deal people are busy. The same thing happened to me. No service and his buddies in the store(They were all having conversation about their model helicopters) were talking about helis and I couldn't get a word in. Obviously I left the place thinking what I clown I must be for giving the store another chance. The store is about 45 minutes away from me and it takes me a few hours to go up there. I seem to have been blacklisted locally when I try to become a member of any club. No one has said this to me directly other than I have been told "I'm hard to work with". That statement is also very strange because I have not had any dealings with anyone here except for a few items bought and sold that went extremely smooth. I met up with a "gasser" gentleman a few months ago when I purchased a Whiplash. We went to his club and had what I thought was a good time. He asked if I'd like to become a member when we were together. I pm'd him here to follow up stating that I no longer had the gasser since MA went out of business and I'd still like to be a member of the club. He has ignored my messages. Is it because I don't own a gasser anymore? Is it because I don't want to purchase any of my gear from this local heli shop?

Soooo, my point is I don't frequent this site nearly as much as I used to. Anyone with the drive to figure out these models can and will without the help of the internet. When I first came to this site the members portrayed a united front where anyone and everyone is welcome and we are all friends(I use the term loosely) because we share a common love for these models. All I see is constant bickering about gassers are better than electrics are better than whatever your using to spin those blades. I have replied to posts stating that I like this brand or that engine and get attacked. Even with this particular post members can't seem to come together about AMA membership rules and club rules. I realize that this is a forum where debates do occur but really?

Another hobby I enjoy is 4 wheeling/dune buggying, and or dirt biking. I am a member of an ATV club and a member of another forum and I've never heard anyone say that your bike stinks because it's a four stroke or your bike stinks because it's a China bike etc. Everyone has their favorites but we just don't go the the extremes that members do here to point out the inadequacies of their favorite toys.

I can obviously go on and on but as a guy that has no affiliation with any club, shop, or brand all I see is constant bickering and no real intention to bring new people in to enjoy these great models. We all have or most of us have our location or where we are from in our profiles. I think in the few years I have been on this forum I have been contacted by one local gentleman that wanted to get together. I've actually had one of these 'mentors' tell me to find someone local when the guy lives a few miles up the road. There are the few members that are always available to lend a helping hand who should be applauded because the are truly genuine. For the most part as an organized entity this hobby is a mess. I like planes and actually own a few but have no where to fly them. I had no idea of the animosity between the two groups until I read it on this forum.

If it is a goal of the powers that be that this hobby grow you guys need to relax. As an outsider all I see is a bunch of adults hoarding what's theirs(Club memberships, new gear) and not letting anyone else in.

I have stated this before but why would I renew my AMA membership(Other than for selfish reasons or for insurance) for an entity that supports this type of behavior or maybe not supports it but as I see it why should I support the good ole boys club?

I've spent thousands on these things and I am going to fly them where ever it's legally allowed and maybe some places that it isn't...

I apologize if I've offended anyone that has helped me in the past as I truly do appreciate it.
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04-28-2014 04:19 PM  6 years ago
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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It sounds like you're a bit jaded, but please don't feel that way. There are still quite a few here that are extremely helpful and aren't judgemental about what or how you fly.

I will admit there are some here that do nothing but argue and enjoy making others feel inferior, but those are the ones you should make a point to avoid. I get that from some here too.

I think RR is still a good place to get helpful information about everything R/C....not just heli stuff. I'm not sure if you mean to leave the hobby because of the negative experiences you've had, but I hope you weather through it. I understand why you would feel that way, but I think it's more about "the times" than it is just a heli vs. plane thing. I've seen the attitudes you speak of everywhere. Not so much overseas, but yes I think all this connectivity has made us more personally disconnected. Being able to berate someone online without consequences makes it easy to do. Ironically, it's harder to treat people online as you would if you met them in person. But, as a general rule, I realize that the ones that do that would never do it to your face so, I just try to ignore the rude ones and focus on the ones who have something valid to say.

I make it a point not to take anything that's said online personally since it can be so easy to treat a person like crap when you can't see their face or even know who they are. There is no accountability online for how you treat anyone. I hope you find a good group to help you get in the air close to you, but if not, you can still ask away here. Hopefully you'll get the attention of the "good ones" that will help you out anytime you need it.
Mellisa
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04-28-2014 05:39 PM  6 years ago
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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There are many who don't feel the money we pay for the ama membership is worth it. Not much in the magazine for helicopter guys, some stuff but not a lot really. The insurance can also be debated. That said, there ARE things that our memberships pay for we do not see. The ability to work with the FAA would not be as much an option if at all if it weren't for the AMA.

To me, I don't mind paying, to be able to focus on my hobby with others of the same vision, be it planes or helicopters. There is a lot to talk about and flying alone may give you peace, but you wont get the helpful hints and conversations without a gathering of a few like minded people.

Lastly, when you go to any funflys, its a requirement. The funflys really do make it worth the cost of admission to me
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04-28-2014 06:26 PM  6 years ago
pitmaster

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Harleysville, PA

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Not much in the magazine for helicopter guys, some stuff but not a lot really
Now that's the truth! The magazine is 99% planks and 1% heli.
The ability to work with the FAA would not be as much an option if at all if it weren't for the AMA.
To me there is no more compelling reason than this one. Like it or not, all of the drone talk in the media has put our hobby on the radar screen and not necessarily in a good way. We need a voice of reason to speak for us to our lawmakers and regulators, most of whom wouldn't know a swashplate from a swashbuckler. When speaking to lawmakers, membership numbers are important. The larger the body the more they will listen
Sweet Blades (Logo 600SE) and the Micro Harem - 4 x MCPX BLs | MCPX v2| 2 x NCPX | 130X | Trex 150
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04-29-2014 12:09 AM  6 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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Think about it. And think about your reaction to me, or who/what you perceive me to be.
Listen dude, if you want to break the AMA rules/regs on purpose, have at it and quit trying to justify it and make yourself feel better by saying, "It's no big deal. Everybody does it." In other words, quit projecting your wanton disregard on others. Your flawed decision to execute selfish actions has nothing to do with me or anyone else...right up until the accident... If you do have an accident involving another, I hope they're lenient with you if you need their coverage. Wait, on second thought... No, I don't. I hope the AMA tells you to pound sand along with receiving an extra helping of tender Bubba lovin's in the civil suit, which I sincerely hope is brought against you if you harm another through your foolish actions.

Continue your false defense should you so desire. I'm sure you will, UJ. Maybe someone else will console you in disregarding safety rules because I'm out of this 'tarded discussion with you.
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04-29-2014 12:26 AM  6 years ago
revmix

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NJ

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public places
flying 'cut-off saw' like helicutter with 2000+RPM disk should not be around bystanders
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04-29-2014 12:30 AM  6 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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Planks are always in ff and never piro or fly backward, sideways, tic toc, and bunch of other things.
You've never seen a plank hover vertically on the prop or fly backwards in the wind? I'm talking ground speed, not airspeed. You've never seen a plank bank its wings back and forth quickly in knife edge flight, which is the direct analog to heli tic-tocs?
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04-29-2014 12:39 AM  6 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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The insurance can also be debated. That said, there ARE things that our memberships pay for we do not see. The ability to work with the FAA would not be as much an option if at all if it weren't for the AMA.
They cover our butts with the FCC, too.
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04-29-2014 01:14 AM  6 years ago
BobOD

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New York- USA

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May I point out that Unclejane has said he has a spotter when at an AMA sanctioned club. So he does show respect for the rules.
As for operating outside of a sanctioned club without a spotter, I imagine he is aware that he is not operating within AMA guidelines and takes the responsibility on his own. I prefer to leave that to his better judgment. It is a worthwhile point to avoid encouraging others to do the same without careful consideration...this is a good point to stress.
For the record, I have a spotter for flying anything bigger than a 150, whether it's FPV or line of sight...rule or not.
Team POP Secret
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04-29-2014 01:46 AM  6 years ago
greenboot

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Marblehead, OH

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icanfly,
Your rant just seem to bring out the worst in me. I can't help but argue, just for the sport of it!
Plankers are a little jealous of helis.
I fly both planks and helis. I have lots of friends that fly both. In my opinion, this is not true in the general case. People are more often jealous of the more expensive machine, or a more skilled pilot.
It kind of hurts to show up a planker with a heli and signal they don't know it all.
Wow, my therapist could spend all day on that statement!
I see a lot of lackadaisical plank flight, heli flight too
OK, that makes it even.
Not to piss on them but to introduce the amazing capabilities of a helicopter.
Really? Earlier you wrote: "I would mock plankers". And that's not expected to piss on them?
Is it illegal to fly anywhere? technically no unless stated otherwise
This doesn't sound like good legal advise. But what do I know.
If a mechanical failure occurs the blame cannot rest on anyone.
Blame will rest on anyone the judge/jury puts it on. They have the final say. And they sometimes make strange decisions.
At clubs you have to worry about other flyers taking you out, how you gonna win?
You can choose to worry if you want to. Myself, I choose not to. The club is obviously not your thing. But some of us really love it.
Tom
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04-29-2014 01:52 AM  6 years ago
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Listen dude, if you want to break the AMA rules/regs on purpose,
Where do I advocate breaking the AMA rules on purpose?
have at it and quit trying to justify it and make yourself feel better by saying, "It's no big deal. Everybody does it."
Well, I have asked you if you do it twice now, but you haven't given an answer. Am I to assume you never ever bend or break a rule? And do you always get this upset when someone else breaks a rule? Are you really this much fun at your flying field?
In other words, quit projecting your wanton disregard on others.
Where do you get the idea that I have "wanton disregard"?

You seem to have gotten wildly upset about some preconceived notions in your own head about me, of your own invention. And, to be honest, I think they were precipitated by the fact that I'm an FPV'er. Or perhaps aggravated by that.

And if that's the case, you're demonstrating my point - you're presenting yourself to me as an FPV'er in the manner you complain that plankers are presenting themselves to you. You're practically throwing a tantrum over the fact that I admitted to breaking a rule one time.

Isn't this the complaint you have against the plankers when you show up at your field with a heli? Among other things, an overly rigid, growling finger-wagging attitude about rules?

LS
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04-29-2014 02:05 AM  6 years ago
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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May I point out that Unclejane has said he has a spotter when at an AMA sanctioned club. So he does show respect for the rules.
As for operating outside of a sanctioned club without a spotter, I imagine he is aware that he is not operating within AMA guidelines and takes the responsibility on his own. I prefer to leave that to his better judgment. It is a worthwhile point to avoid encouraging others to do the same without careful consideration...this is a good point to stress.
For the record, I have a spotter for flying anything bigger than a 150, whether it's FPV or line of sight...rule or not.
For my side of the record, I no longer fly at my local field, but for other reasons (access). I do fly at other areas where R/C flying isn't specifically barred (which means it's legal) - I use a spotter when one is available, but that doesn't keep me from flying when one isn't (which is about 90% of the time).

I also stay far far away from sensitive areas - parks where there are people, kids etc., areas where there are animals that are sensitive to noisy aircraft and so forth. I exercise as much common sense when it comes to safety as possible.

Basically, hardly anyone ever knows I'm flying my machines because I stay out of the way of others.

I think that, while it's important to follow the rules when flying in places where there are rules, one shouldn't be so afraid of rules/regs to not go out somewhere where it's not illegal to fly and go fly. That's one of the neatest things about FPV is exploring an area you haven't flown in, that's one of the reasons I fly FPV.

So I don't shackle myself to rules and regs, but I do default to safety when flying in areas where there aren't any rules.

LS
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04-29-2014 02:24 AM  6 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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You've never seen a plank hover vertically on the prop or fly backwards in the wind? I'm talking ground speed, not airspeed. You've never seen a plank bank its wings back and forth quickly in knife edge flight, which is the direct analog to heli tic-tocs?
gotcha on that but still doesn't compare to a hovering heli requiring NO LANDING AND TAKE OFF STRIP. It is great to see a plank can mix it up. Man, if you saw a full size biplane stunt pilot 3d you'd simply be amazed, I had several years ago when a pilot was practicing for an airshow.

Personally, I go to the sim and fly stunt planks to get ready when pal wants to fly, after I've finished practicing with a heli. I like the Pitts Special biplane. Makes a person a more versatile flyer, made my heli flying more exciting as nothing compares.

If you want to start a "Heli versus Planks" thread lets argue the two there. This topic is about legalities regarding non club locations. The replies suggest many heli flyers are driven from clubs to look elsewhere to fly and meet with other heli flyers. It is easy to reason it happens all the time. The odds have proven very favorable towards heli flying anywhere space allows.

Greenboot, I guess my earlier rant was influenced by news of a 1/4 scale planker in Germany who lost both arms because he started his machine without tying it down first. I related that story to a hs worker who refused to want to hear more details. The plank "thing" is a lot about SCALE aircraft. Pod and boom is kinda boring looking. I enjoyed your reply.
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04-29-2014 02:55 AM  6 years ago
BobOD

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New York- USA

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I'm dying to take one of these to a plank only club some day. Just to see what the old geezers will do.
Would also be great for when all the e-guys are out. LOL

Watch at YouTube

Team POP Secret
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04-29-2014 03:44 PM  6 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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Thx lady for the positive encouragement but I do not know if I'm jaded or just a realist. The recent responses to this thread are just reinforcement to my belief that this hobby is a mess. To each his/her own....

I should have gotten into boating
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04-29-2014 04:09 PM  6 years ago
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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I do not know if I'm jaded or just a realist. The recent responses to this thread are just reinforcement to my belief that this hobby is a mess. To each his/her own....
Well, looking through this thread, I can definately tell why you feel the way you do. Some here definately aren't helping my argument that there are still many helpful users here. But we all know some people just like to argue and berate other people just for the sake of doing so.

You said that you spent thousands on R/C stuff. And you know by now, that you won't recoupe most of your investment if you decided to jump ship. So you would just let some arrogant, know-it-all run you out the hobby just becuase they won't shut up? Na, c'mon.

We all deal with dueche bags on a daily basis, but we all live for the moment when we get to hang out with the good ones and everything falls right into place. That time makes it all worth it.
I should have gotten into boating
Try and hang in there. I'm sure those same know-it-all types are into boating too. You can't get away from 'em; they're everywhere, but you can ignore them.
Mellisa
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04-29-2014 04:50 PM  6 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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Thank you LadyMagic.

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