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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Is it illegal to fly anywhere?
04-25-2014 03:40 PM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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It's always predictable how these club threads turn into blaming others for not being accepted, the source of problems, etc.

The bottom line is that these issues have nothing with the type of aircraft you fly. It's all about people skills.

If you've ever thought the problem is with someone else, that very thought is the problem.
Oh hell no...

I'm not buying a Plank just to "fit in"

why should we Heli guys always struggle to fit in with the older crowd...it shouldn't be that way...and its not always the older vs younger...its sometimes just as simple as the Helis vs Planks.
I'm a 100% heli guy. I have a few planks too.

Why you ask? Because sometimes you need to sacrifice what you want now for what you want eventually.

If you want change you need to make it happen. It's not going to happen on it's own.
  
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04-25-2014 04:01 PM  6 years ago
Ladymagic

rrKey Veteran

South Korea

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Isn't "that" one of the points of this hobby? Friendship? Learning together? Having fun together? Helping one another?

It used to be this way...
Exactly. I don't know what changed, but in the end its all about having a good time and sharing experiences together. I think there are still many pilots who have this mindset, but unfourtunately, I think the deuche bags are the ones who run the clubs nowadays. Clubs are like high school clicks or good 'ole boy clubs. and less about meeting new people and learning from each other.

I don't care what you fly. If you are respectful and friendly, I'll help you however you need.
I think plankers trying to hover or torque roll a 40% is exceedingly dangerous.
I would much rather have a 700 helicopter hovering over the runway than an airplane, because at least the helicopter has positive control at all times.
I partially agree. But, I will admit, that if I'm at the site with another heli pilot I've not seen before, I am much more jumpy at first than I am with a new planker guy until I see how they actually fly. I've been out when a new pilot shows up and his whole flight was teetering on catastrophy. Flying too close. Sloppy control and careless stunts at what looks to be an attempt to show off. I got chased around by a heli that got locked out for 2 minutes because he never programmed a fail safe. This thing was all over the place and finally came down in the pits next to another guy's car. No one was hurt, but it could have been bad.

My point is heli and planes are dangerous, but I'll admit it doesn't take more than a popped link, one bad cyclic servo, or a dead rx pack to cause big problems on a heli. Planes tend to crash in a predictable straight line. Helis can change directions in a split second.

I admit I trust my own stuff becuase I know how I maintain it. So, in that respect I can see how a plane guy would be leary at first, but I don't immediately go up thrashing around. I do circuits and precision flights at first so the guys at the site can see that I have control of my machine. I let them look over my stuff in the pits before I fly so they can see it is well maintained and more than airworthy. I do admit to strolling through the pits to look at other peoples equipment to get an idea of what they are capable of. If I see duct tape over monokote (yes I've seen it) on a plane or jerry rigged parts on a heli, I usually pack up and leave or hide under the awning in the pit until they land or crash. But no matter what you fly, once you show that you respect your plane or heli, the airspace, and the people at the site with you, then everyone has a good day. Even the ones that crash. There should be no need for the plane vs. heli thing we have nowadays.
Mellisa
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04-25-2014 05:20 PM  6 years ago
WBFAir

rrApprentice

Stamford, CT - USA

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One of the things that bugs me is these clubs that "say" their an open club as they want you to join even though you tell them you primarily are a helo pilot as they want your money as well as just one more member for other kinds of things.

Then you show up and you get all kinds of attitudes and kinds of things we are seeing talked about here.

I know that was the way it was for me as was all smiles till they got my money, an as well if they were talked to about it...but then bring up a issue and or complain about how something was endangering your model, and its like yeah OK mister helo pilot, now go over in the corner and hover in your little spot and stay there while the adult plane people do and fly in what ever way we want and bend or break every rule we feel like.

Say what you want, but as can be seen here as well as for every helo pilot at least I have ever talked to, this is the very overwhelming way things are for the vast majority of us.

So guess my point here is basically I put a huge amount of this on the officials of these clubs as no one is blind at these places, or at least shouldn't be to have these positions, an if all the things we are talking about are happening, then they are letting it happen, or even in my case, were promotion it.

Way I see it, if you don't want helo guys around, then don't let them join. But if you do, you have to treat them in 100% the same way every one gets treated and if there are special concessions plane guys have to make to allow helos to fly among the planes, then that is just the way. An if there are people in the club who are causing helo guys issues as they just don't like them, then no matter who they are, they are dealt with just as much if the roles were reversed.

As well I hope I don't come of again as a basher of the AMA, but I know they know a lot of this is going on and I really think they should be addressing the problem too.

But I will add one more thing in that if we as members see this stuff is going on, and don't like it an find there is nothing that can be done, they just quit the club an form your own. Trust me, I know it's not a walk in the park, but it's not all that bad either. Biggest issue is finding a place, but after that, just get 5 AMA members together an make up some simple documents, and a few other things that the AMA is very happy to help you with, and it's done. An then you can run things all in the way helos work best, an poof no more issues.

Guess what I'm saying with that is, don't just be a lazy complainer and expect everyone else always has to do for you. If you don't like the way things are, then do something about it.

Trust me, if a lot of these plane clubs start loosing all kinds of people to helo only clubs, which I think is one of the biggest fears of what will happen "inside" a lot of these clubs, they will come around.
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04-25-2014 08:28 PM  6 years ago
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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I'm a 100% heli guy. I have a few planks too.
then your not a 100% heli guy

use this formula:
(helis)/(total of helis and planes) = % heli guy

Like I have stated before...I have experienced first hand the attitude from patriarchs of the club and its not 100% welcoming...its more of a form of cold tolerance...sometimes more along the lines of "if we ignore him, maybe he will fly elsewhere"...when I started going I was not even a club member...AND not once did anybody from the planker group encourage me to join.

Honestly, I feel like its damn near a form of "aircraft racism"...

the plankers at the field will cheer and clap when one of thier own manages to land a $150 foamie...

but get a heli guy up there to do 3D...and they don't even acknowledge it even flew.
---What would you call that?

When I first started going I made an effort to talk to the plankers...I asked questions and gave complements about thier birds (just to start conversation)...but you know what...NEVER, NOT ONCE did a planker ever approach me and ask me questions about my Helis or give a single complement...

When I would show up, No planker ever said, "hey let me move some of this crap off the table so you can put some of your stuff up here..." that only came from fellow Heli pilots.

Now don't take this as me saying ALL plankers are a-holes...but at my "ex" club the good ol boy influence is definately at work...and it shows by looking at the member list...majority are well over 55 and they don't have a single member under the age of 30.

So when I would meet up with the two other Heli guys there (when they were there), we just hung out at our tiny a$$ end of the field.
Way I see it, if you don't want helo guys around, then don't let them join. But if you do, you have to treat them in 100% the same way every one gets treated
+++++++++
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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04-25-2014 10:19 PM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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My formula is more accurate as it's based on actual flying.

Heli flights: Lots
Plank flights: 0 in recent years.
  
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04-26-2014 01:14 AM  6 years ago
HeimD

rrVeteran

the great southwest

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then your not a 100% heli guy
Stuff like this when correcting others...priceless...
but get a heli guy up there to do 3D...and they don't even acknowledge it even flew.
---What would you call that?
Someone who needs to learn how to enjoy a hobby without the accolades of others to boost their ego. If you need old planker farts to clap and whoop it up just because you "flew", well...
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04-26-2014 01:18 AM  6 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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My formula is more accurate is it's based on actual flying.

Heli flights: Lots
Plank flights: 0 in recent years.
Bring a "decoy" plank with the helis, set it up yet never fly it and still get accepted by the planker dudes.
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04-26-2014 03:16 AM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Bring a "decoy" plank with the helis, set it up yet never fly it and still get accepted by the planker dudes.
You know it's all about playing the game!
  
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04-26-2014 03:22 AM  6 years ago
earlwb

rrNovice

Grapevine, Texas

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That isn't a bad idea. You can meander out and try to get it ready for flight and act frustrated that it won't bind or work or something and say "Oh Well, another day maybe".

We do have some heli guys that do bring planes out too. One of them uses 3D planes and likes to hover it right in front of the peanut gallery about 4 feet off the ground a lot. Another guy has a fast seaplane delta plane he likes to fly from time to time. He just goes fast and turns left and if someone asks, he says "right turn?

What is a right turn"? These guys fly the big X7 Gaui's and can use up the entire flying field doing their show routines.
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04-26-2014 04:26 AM  6 years ago
kingmeow

rrApprentice

The Garden State, US

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use this formula:
(helis)/(total of helis and planes) = % heli guy
Shouldn't that be :
(helis)/(total of helis and planes) x 100 = % heli guy
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04-26-2014 03:37 PM  6 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I think once you cross over into helis, you are no longer a planker no matter if you own planks or not.Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives
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04-26-2014 04:29 PM  6 years ago
WBFAir

rrApprentice

Stamford, CT - USA

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I don't know necessarily if all that much of it is whether you have planes or once in a great while you fly a plane.

The bottom line is they just don't want helos there.

All in all its not that your a helo guy or not a helo guy (although has some bearings) it just that at some point, you are putting helos up in the area they fly their planes.

For me I did go that route an even bought a plane an flew it well. I also happen to be a license PP as well were both of my parents. My father was even in the AirCorp during WWII. My childhood consisted of reading WWII plane spotter books & basics of aviation right next to Dr Seuss. Plane Aviation is in my blood as much as anyone could have it.

But the second I flew a helo, I was a helo guy to the plane guys and therefore was to be treated like one while or even while I wasn't flying one.
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04-26-2014 05:16 PM  6 years ago
kingmeow

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The Garden State, US

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I see myself as an "R/C Guy"! If it has servos, a Rx and can be controlled by a Tx, I'm in!
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04-26-2014 05:53 PM  6 years ago
WBFAir

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Stamford, CT - USA

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I see myself as an "R/C Guy"! If it has servos, a Rx and can be controlled by a Tx, I'm in!
I always felt the same way, I never one bit liked putting anyone in a category an to this day while I see an get all the issues from plane an glider guys, I really still just don't understand why they have to be this way.

All in all I see it as no help to the hobby, which has enough hardships to deal with as it is already.

But is not really for me to decide, if I show up to a club, and someone see's me flying only helo's and then says, oh he's a helo guy and then treats me as dif no matter what, an especially when it gets done in full support of the club officers, there isn't a whole lot I can do about that.
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04-26-2014 06:51 PM  6 years ago
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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you know I tried to hob nob with the plankers...till I found myself looking like a politician panning or votes. Plankers at my field for the Most part will NOT start a conversation with a heli guy...unless its to say how "dangerous" they are....

the last time it went there it went like this:
I get of my POS car, take out my T600 and two Radikals...walk past the pavillion and say hi (nobody says hi to me first BTW).

once in a blue moon a planker will comment while I'm walking past getting my stuff and say "ah...so..you fly Helicopters." and its not a question.

that there marks me as an outsider.

So I just gave up...and just hang with Heli pilots...they are more fun anyway...whenever they decide to show up.
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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04-27-2014 05:25 PM  6 years ago
1helimech

rrVeteran

NW Fla....

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I went flying yesterday at my "home" field and had a blast with the plankers, that is to say all but one stayed away from my heli's and just waved hi from a distance....I flew my four helis twice each which shut down the field for about 10 minutes ea., for the 8 flights, I flew the plank pattern did only plank aerobatics no 3D (cuz I can't really do any with style and grace) at the end of the day I Did get applause from one glider guy... It's all good we all enjoyed a great day at the field. I’ve been a member for this club for over 20 years now and I'm NOT going anywhere....I dream of a better world, A world where a chicken's crossing a road IS NOT questioned
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04-27-2014 05:36 PM  6 years ago
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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You do realize, per the AMA regulations, when flying FPV that you need another person as a line-of-sight spotter, right?
If you're not using a spotter, good luck getting that coverage if you have an accident that damages property or injures another.
This is part of what I mean when I talk about what the FPV community faces even within R/C. It raises even more hairs on the back of people's necks than showing up with just a helicopter does - out comes the wagging finger even from fellow heli pilots:

"but you're breaking all the rules! Don't you know that? You FPV'ers are going to ruin the hobby with all your rule breaking! You guys are dangerous! You're cowboys who don't know the rules! The world is going to come to an end! You infidels!".

Just substitute "helicopter" for "FPV" above and things start to sound really familiar.

But this is common any time you show up to fly anywhere with something unusual or new - it makes people extremely nervous, since they're not familiar with it and all they've heard is all the folkore about how dangerous it is and so forth.

It just takes time for people to get used to new or unusual technologies. Thats just kind of how it is.

LS
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04-27-2014 07:25 PM  6 years ago
HeimD

rrVeteran

the great southwest

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once in a blue moon a planker will comment while I'm walking past getting my stuff and say "ah...so..you fly Helicopters." and its not a question.
I love making those Mr. MOTO types look like idiots. Usually I fire back some smart ass remark like, "Really? Thanks for telling me because I had no clue I was a heli guy!" Their looks are priceless.
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04-27-2014 07:28 PM  6 years ago
HeimD

rrVeteran

the great southwest

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This is part of what I mean when I talk about what the FPV community faces even within R/C. It raises even more hairs on the back of people's necks than showing up with just a helicopter does - out comes the wagging finger even from fellow heli pilots:

"but you're breaking all the rules! Don't you know that?
So, what's your problem? If he's flying FPV and not use a spotter then he's BREAKING THE RULES put forth by the AMA. Multi-rotor, heli, plank...doesn't matter... Anyone who breaks either the AMA rules or the club rules deserves to be reprimanded. This is NOT the same thing as being "shunned" because you fly a certain type of aircraft.
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04-27-2014 09:40 PM  6 years ago
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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So, what's your problem? If he's flying FPV and not use a spotter then he's BREAKING THE RULES put forth by the AMA. Multi-rotor, heli, plank...doesn't matter... Anyone who breaks either the AMA rules or the club rules deserves to be reprimanded. This is NOT the same thing as being "shunned" because you fly a certain type of aircraft.
It is sort of the same thing. Look at how upset you're getting. You're practically screaming, if the caps are any indication.

That's my point - you are being to me sort of the way the plankers are being to you, probably partly because you're not familiar with FPV ops and you probaby have a slightly hyperbolic idea of its hazards and maybe even some preconceived notions about FPV pilots.

Do you fly helicopter FPV? Have you ever flown FPV or flown with other folks at your field who were FPV?

Also, have you ever broken an AMA rule? Have you ever bent one? Did you or do you police every infraction by everyone that you ever see? How strict about it are you for yourself?

Just think about it for a bit.

I'm not advocating flouting the rules here - that's why I don't fly at AMA fields solo anymore. What I am doing is showing that you may have a little of that same kind of prejudice towards me that you're complaining about plankers having towards you. And it's manifesting as this finger-wagging, almost hysterical "YOU'RE BREAKING THE RULES"...

LS
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