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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Is it illegal to fly anywhere?
04-24-2014 08:10 PM  6 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Ain't that the truth! I get the field all to myself when there is even 10mph winds! The plunkers are Skurred!!!!Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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04-24-2014 08:14 PM  6 years ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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yet when I pull up and bring out the helis, I seem to immediately get the stink-eye
yup, happens to me...

I really think it comes down to skill set or maybe some sort of jealousy...cause just like it was mentioned...If you can fly a heli well enough...you more than likey have no problems flying a plank....this is not so true the otherway around.

case in point a while back at my "EX" club...

one guy flying a Cub....yes a boring a$$ FOAMIE Cub, does a few circuits...then lands, gets a round of applause... seriously! for what? cause he didn't crash THIS TIME?

I go up and take the field as all the plankers decide to sit and BS due to the hot sun...
I take my Modded G20...flips, rolls, inverted hover, inverted forward AND backward, funnels, tic tocs, inverted loops...just doing my best to put on a good show...then land, I get absolute silence....I turn around with a smile on my face (as if to say, did you see that?!) expecting some sort of expression for putting on a show, but NO...

a cow taking a $hit gets more attention than a heli flying mild 3D at my club.
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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04-24-2014 08:17 PM  6 years ago
WBFAir

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Stamford, CT - USA

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So how does one know if they have any Personal Liability coverage to their HO policy? And or if they do, if it covers any accidents while flying helos?

Also, does anyone know, if a situation occurs, does the AMA (or their insurers to us) request a copy of our HO policy, an if they determine there is coverage, do they say they will not things an you are just going to have to work things out with you HO company?

Thing is an I hope I am not coming off bashing the AMA as I am a member, but I have read stories of people who have gotten all kinds of things covered to almost a unbelievable amount, as well as ones who got skunked bad too as they said, your HO covers this an we will not. An to some degree, it seems to have a bearing on the above point.

So just trying to learn where I stand. Or learn at the least of how to check of where I stand.
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04-24-2014 08:30 PM  6 years ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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So how does one know if they have any Personal Liability coverage to their HO policy?
my first guess would be to actually read it...and if it is not clearly defined, ask your agent to define it for you, thats what they get paid for.

I carry AMA for two reasons only...

1.) if you go to a fun fly or club field...you need one

and 2.) its cheap so why not have it as a just in case my HO decides to fight paying out...
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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04-24-2014 08:41 PM  6 years ago
rcnut

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Rockford, Illinois

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I bought the lifetime membership, so I'm covered for my lifetime! No worries.Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!
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04-24-2014 08:53 PM  6 years ago
HeimD

rrVeteran

the great southwest

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I'm a 100% FPV pilot nowadays so I'm the fringe of the fringe now - I haven't actually flown at my local field with other folks there since I made the switch about a year ago.

I either have gone out when the field is deserted or have gone and flown somewhere else in a public area devoid of other people for whom I could present a hazard.
You do realize, per the AMA regulations, when flying FPV that you need another person as a line-of-sight spotter, right? If you're not using a spotter, good luck getting that coverage if you have an accident that damages property or injures another.
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04-24-2014 09:00 PM  6 years ago
WBFAir

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Stamford, CT - USA

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my first guess would be to actually read it...and if it is not clearly defined, ask your agent to define it for you, that's what they get paid for.
Well that's kinda the thing.

For me I have spent some time dealing with insurance for my business, an typically find that unless something is rather well spelled out, it's not covered.

Then you could also say that there are blanket terms such as an just fully for the sake of example, $15,000 for Liabilities for occurrences outside the home.

Well that's even more scary as it's so broad it generally becomes a point of interpretation and per the unique circumstances of just what happened, such as for example, well was it intentional, or better put, could it have been prevented (?), well yes as had you not taken the 12hp 4 ft open CF bladed 2000 RPM flying lawnmower into a public place where it was not 100% preventable that someone could have been in the wrong place as its open to the public, then it would not have happened. Basically this happened as it was poor judgment on your part, so you are not covered as the policy only cover's accidents, which are unintentional or generally unavoidable.

But even beyond that, guess what I am even saying is, for what ever reason no matter how silly or illogical it may be to you or me, if my HO just refuses to cover me, is it 100% a guarantee that the AMA will then step in for 100% of the coverage to its limits?

Again, hope I'm not coming off to any to not join the AMA as the insurance is worthless. But have herd this before an just really am putting 2+2 together for the first time and guess I get what the AMA insurance is as its really more of a umbrella coverage for what my HO policy might not cover.

But being that even if I have some form of off property liability, I doubt my HO policy has any terms that might read anything about helos or hobbies, so I could see some real sticking points.
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04-24-2014 09:25 PM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Some of this is covered in the AMA membership manual:

https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/memanual.pdf
  
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04-24-2014 09:38 PM  6 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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Years ago when I still lived in Jax, FL, there was a guy flying a .60 nitro who hit a girl riding a quad. The flying area was at the site of the old Jax Int'l airport and the abandoned runways were kind of a "free for all". Several guys were flying when some drunk rednecks on quads and dirt bikes showed up and started ripping up and down the runway right were these guys were flying. The girl got hit in the back of the head as she was riding away from field center. He couldn't see her because she was out of his peripheral vision since he was focused on his heli and she was past him headed down the runway in the same direction as the heli. She was to his right and he was looking left making a low fast pass. The heli caught up with her very quickly from behind and she got knocked the F out and had lots of lacerations. She almost lost an ear. The AMA covered the guy and agreed to a one time $100K payout to the girl. But, her family didn't take it, tried to sue and lost the case because he had several witnesses who saw what happened and testified. Before the accident, the R/C guys had also moved away farther down the runway to get away from the idiots, but they started riding down there, too. The point is that for anyone bashing the AMA insurance, they do pay out. The heli guy was retired JSO (police) and seemed well-to-do, so I'm sure he had his own homeowner's insurance policy, too. I don't know if the AMA's offer of $100K coverage was in addition to that or not. Drunk redneck girl ended getting nothing, zip, nada when her family went crawling back to the AMA wanting the $100K after they sued and lost.
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04-24-2014 09:54 PM  6 years ago
WBFAir

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Stamford, CT - USA

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Hope this was not meant by what was said, but I am not bashing the AMA insurance, just trying to find out what is what.

All in all this kind of thing is no joke kinda like if you use Futaba or Spektrum as the wrong outcome can have real consequences.

As mentioned, when it comes to insurance, typically things need to be spelled out to be covered, and if not, then its up to circumstances and interpretation.

Is even funny as the above example is just what I mean, as while this one because of all the circumstances, (which would probably all never happen again), went the way it did not only as those existed but too as there were the judgment calls made per those. But I would not be surprised that there are stories out there too were just a few diff of say things like above made a huge dif in the outcome. Then even throw in just the dif per how one person of judgment sees things to another which again, is how things will go if not spelled out, and then its never a sure thing.

Is kinda my whole point and all I am saying is just looking for more clarifications.
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04-24-2014 10:37 PM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Is kinda my whole point and all I am saying is just looking for more clarifications.
If you want clarification the only authority is directly from the source. Read the documentation on the AMA website or contact the AMA directly.
  
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04-24-2014 10:43 PM  6 years ago
whoamis

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san francisco, ca

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Got knocked out, lacerated and almost lost an ear, and that's a "funny" story?

Next time the plankers say we don't appreciate the dangers of helis to others, reflect back on this.
oops, bounced it!
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04-24-2014 10:44 PM  6 years ago
WBFAir

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Stamford, CT - USA

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Who said it was a funny story?
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04-25-2014 12:33 AM  6 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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I think plankers trying to hover or torque roll a 40% is exceedingly dangerous. Those planes in the state of a full stall are almost completely out of control, and while the experienced pilots can juice the throttle to provide airflow over the control surfaces and maintain the illusion of positive control, I have seen on many occasions with inexperienced pilots when the aircraft falls out of the hover and the pilot jams full throttle in an attempt to save it with the nose pointed in any direction. Sometimes these planes will snap-roll right into the ground right in front of the runway. But nobody ever complains about this. I would much rather have a 700 helicopter hovering over the runway than an airplane, because at least the helicopter has positive control at all times. In fact, I can't really think of any maneuver with a helicopter where you don't maintain positive control. Even a stall turn in a helicopter maintains positive control. But most maneuvers with the giant-scale airplanes are some version of a full-stall maneuver which is inherently dangerous because those airplanes are inherently out of control.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
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04-25-2014 12:43 AM  6 years ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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I don't have any issue with plankers....

some of the guys I used to fly with had both large planks and helis

its the plankers that have no business flying anymore due to deteriating senses, reaction times, poor attitudes towards yonger faster pilots due to progressive OFS and exceedingly poor building/maintenance skills linked to OFS.
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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04-25-2014 01:04 AM  6 years ago
HeimD

rrVeteran

the great southwest

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Next time the plankers say we don't appreciate the dangers of helis to others, reflect back on this.
Or reflect to the people who have actually been killed by helis like Roman last year.
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04-25-2014 01:05 AM  6 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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its the plankers that have no business flying anymore due to deteriating senses, reaction times, poor attitudes towards yonger faster pilots due to progressive OFS and exceedingly poor building/maintenance skills linked to OFS.
Aka "oldie moldies".
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04-25-2014 01:12 PM  6 years ago
chris6414

rrApprentice

Holly Ridge, NC USA

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Wow

Really guys? Being a 20+ year planker turned helo pilot I had to chime in. Are plankers intimidated by agressive helicopter flying? Sure they are as I am. My head is always on swivel even with agressive plank flying. I got into flying years ago due to always being an aviation ethusiast. Ever since I was a kid watching Cessnas doing touch and go's at my grandfather's house and just watching them "flying the pattern" for hours. Most appreciate that scale flying experience that younger 3D pilots find dull and boring. I only state this so one can appreciate and understand why some fliers will never understand the appreciation to mastering 3D/Smack style flying. I was mentored by a 89 year old flyier that flew from a lawn chair years ago. His plane was more than twice the age of half the club members and he never crashed. Granted he never tried anything that agressive either. He could fly that cub in reverse in a 15 MPH headwind though. I used to love watch him hover land that cub on its wheels. My point is "when in Rome". When you want to fit in at flying field try some boring scale flying with your HELO. They will surely appreciate your skill to maintain seperation and coordinate touch and go approaches and aborted landings. The first timer I flew as a guest at a field I had never been at I was adament about the plankers not to land when they heard me firing up my helo. I wanted to hover taxi out and wait my turn for nice easy scale type take off low on the runway to a nice egress into the pattern and they started to appreciate a helo in their midst a little more. It really takes the helo pilot to mitigate the stigma we have with the older generation of plankers. I am not saying don't fly 3D but until you show them you are willing to fly their style, there will always be the "us and them" issue. I would much rather be considered a skilled, considerate pilot then a young punk that scares all the older generation out of the airspace. my .02

Chris
Century Hawk Sport, OS .32, Futaba 7C, GY-601 9251
Predator Gasser SE G-23, Fut 3010 servos, JR gyro/servo
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04-25-2014 02:46 PM  6 years ago
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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It really takes the helo pilot to mitigate the stigma we have with the older generation of plankers. I am not saying don't fly 3D but until you show them you are willing to fly their style
Oh hell no...

I'm not buying a Plank just to "fit in"

why should we Heli guys always struggle to fit in with the older crowd...it shouldn't be that way...and its not always the older vs younger...its sometimes just as simple as the Helis vs Planks.
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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04-25-2014 03:13 PM  6 years ago
chris6414

rrApprentice

Holly Ridge, NC USA

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I never said buy a plank. Merely fly the "scale type" flying that most at plank heavy fields fly. Then when you say "want to something sick?" they may be more apt to go "sure, lets see what you can do" Hell, they may even cheer if you ball it up then they tell you to "replace your divots"Century Hawk Sport, OS .32, Futaba 7C, GY-601 9251
Predator Gasser SE G-23, Fut 3010 servos, JR gyro/servo
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Is it illegal to fly anywhere?
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