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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Bought FAKE Spektrum receiver off Ebay, Pls look
04-26-2014 09:58 PM  6 years ago
Retired2011

rrElite Veteran

Lee's Summit, MO

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Amen, Phil and Wayne!

One is wasting their time trying to convince the RR community that Dave is not one of the best and most reliable sources of information here.
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04-26-2014 11:09 PM  6 years ago
heliman41&1/2

rrApprentice

Florida

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You guys make me laugh. I have been here almost longer than all of you combined. What a joke.

How about this? If you can't handle what I am saying, then YOU move on.

If you're so smart, then stay on topic and quit attacking me.

If you cannot (or will not) answer why Horizon will not stop known counterfeit Spektrum products from being sold on Ebay, then stay the hell off my thread.

Thanks.
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04-26-2014 11:46 PM  6 years ago
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Call Spektrum directly. Ask them your question. For all you know, they ARE trying to stop counterfeiting. But you haven't really gone the distance to actually find out what is being done.

Horizon is a distributor, not the manufacturer. They would not be the people responsible for going after a counterfeiter. Spektrum IS the manufacturer, and would be the people who would be the ones in the know, the ones with the patents, and the ones with the most to lose. They are the ones to contact.

Instead of flaming people here on RunRyder and airing what ever dirty laundry you wish, simply go to the source. In the meantime, it's an obsolete receiver no longer being actively manufactured or sold by Spektrum. Makes you wonder where all those Ebay "new" AR6200s are coming from.

-----

No, I am not a Horizon rep. I don't have an axe to grind.

Have I ever notified Horizon, JR, Futaba, Great Planes, Spektrum, Airtronics, Kraft, Orbit, Cannon Electronics, OS Engines, YS, Enya...or anyone of thousands of manufacturers whose equipment I have purchased and used over the past 40 years or so to report my purchase of a counterfeit item? No. I've never PURCHASED a counterfeit item, so I've never had the need to. I buy my hobby stuff from reliable, established shops. Do I buy stuff from Ebay that's got prices that are too good to be true? No. Deals that are too good to be true, well, usually ARE.

You CAN contact Ebay, and you CAN let them know you purchased an item from a vendor who is dealing in counterfeit goods. That's about ALL you can do. Ebay should be able to do their own policing based on reports from their users. Why are you not upset that Ebay allows this practice to continue, unchecked?

-----

Unless I'm missing something, you contacted Horizon and the Spektrum folk to tell them you got a counterfeit receiver. They asked you to send them the evidence for inspection. You refused. All the bloviating and chest thumping aside, what did you expect them to do for you?

-----

You have been a registered RR member since 12/21/2001. In that time, you have amassed 249 posts, more than half in the classified ads section. Longevity is not a real useful measure. I measure the people here on RR by the content of their posts, their contribution to the community and the hobby, and their integrity.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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04-27-2014 12:34 AM  6 years ago
Retired2011

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Lee's Summit, MO

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If you're so smart, then stay on topic and quit attacking me.
Seems to me that everyone IS on topic!

You are being attacked because of your ridiculous posts and expectations.

Sorry about my loss of integrity...but sh!t happens.
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04-28-2014 12:37 PM  6 years ago
heliman41&1/2

rrApprentice

Florida

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Okay.

I now know who "DAVE" is. Wonderful.

Yes, you can minimize my contribution to RR. But, in your doing so, remember this: I donated CASH money to help Mark start this site. That is a fact. How much have you given? No, RR is not my LIFE. I have a life and it is not behind a keyboard. My help is at the flying field.

DAVE, you can really tap dance. Why don't you answer the question. Why isn't Horizon taking action to shut down counterfeit Spektrum products from being sold on ebay? And, don't give me that BS that they are not the manufacturer. They are the US distributor and have the standing to take action.

Are you trying to say I am more responsible to do stop the counterfeit sales, than the US distributor?

I must admit, DAVE, you have quite an ego for only being on the heliproz discount plan. Which heliproz is it, the one that quit or the other one?
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04-28-2014 01:38 PM  6 years ago
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Why don't you answer the question. Why isn't Horizon taking action to shut down counterfeit Spektrum products from being sold on ebay?
I have, repeatedly.

1. How do you KNOW they aren't doing what is necessary to stop the bad guys?

2. You told them you bought a counterfeit. They asked you to send it to them for inspection to confirm your assertion. You refused to thereby denying them the actual evidence they would need to pursue at least one of the bad guys.

3. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT HORIZON and/or SPEKTRUM TO DO WITH YOUR INFORMATION? What would have made you happy? What were your expectations?
-----

Beware the attempt to tie me somehow to being a shill or being a factory rep with the "Heliproz Discount" plan remark. Somehow your desire to smear me as someone less than reputable speaks of your character.

Yes, I filled in the paperwork to be part of Team Heliproz. I believe over the past three or four years I've been part of that program, I have saved a whopping 12% off a single servo I purchased from them. I guess that makes me guilty. In the meantime, I have earned a reputation here and at our flying field as one of the "go to" guys for solving problems and getting people in the air and keeping them there.

-----
Which heliproz is it, the one that quit or the other one?
Since you are asking me to be very accurate in my replies, you should practice the same, or at least know what you are talking about.

Run Lund had been operating under the name of "Ricks" for several years -- he continued to operate the business after its founder (with whom he worked), Rick, died. I'm sorry, I don't recall Rick's last name.

Several years ago, Ron Lund and his employees showed up at their business in the middle of a lumber yard to find the doors padlocked by the owner. His entire livelihood was put at risk by the nutbar who owned the building.

That action essentially put "Rick's" out of business. In the aftermath of that shutdown, Chris Nelson, the man behind FlyCo (and Heliproz in Billings, MT) offered to help Ron Lund get back on his feet. Chris and Ron struck a deal to restart Ron Lund in the RC Heli business, away from the nut job who shut his business down. That partnership resulted in the formation of "Ron's Heliproz South". This generous offer from Chris Nelson did the entire hobby a favor by rescuing one of the "Good Guys" and a really great heli hobby shop.

Fast forward to about a month ago. Based on the Newsletter information from Ron Lund, Ron has become the Sole Proprietor of his business now, which tells me he has repaid the startup money from Chris Nelson and is no longer in debt to FlyCo.

Ron has NOT quit the business, he is now running his own business under his name, "Ron's RC Helicopters." And he remains one of the upstanding Good Guys in the hobby. I wish him all the best as Sole Proprietor.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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04-28-2014 02:56 PM  6 years ago
heliman41&1/2

rrApprentice

Florida

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"3. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT HORIZON and/or SPEKTRUM TO DO WITH YOUR INFORMATION? What would have made you happy? What were your expectations?"

Are getting hot under the collar? Take washcloth, pour some cold water on it and place it on the back of your neck. It helps.

DAVE, I have said repeatedly, that I expect Horizon / Spektrum should pursue and TRY to stop counterfeit products from being sold in plain view to the unsuspecting public. As I am sure, the whole world is not gifted intellectually as you portray to be, by never being duped into buying a fake product. You view of the world, as I take what you are saying, is screw protecting the public, if the counterfeiters trick you, it is your fault.

**That, DAVE, is where I believe Horizon / Spektrum could do more. They could have a NOTICE their website stating they will prosecute any and all person(s)manufacturing and/or selling counterfeit Spektrum products. Within that notice they could ask for leads on where this is being done and follow up on those leads. They could also post what action they are pursuing.

Look, DAVE, if you want to know how to do, ask Ron Lund. He stopped thieves by posting their names/ addresses and any other info on his website about them. Call him and ask him about that. And, by the way, it was Rick's Exotic Lumber. There is a difference between regular lumber and exotic lumber. LOL

**Please, DAVE, tell how you disagree with this.

As always, thank you for keeping this thread going. By now, Google and other search engines should have picked it up in their search engines. It would be interesting what the people outside this micro group feel about Horizon / Spektrum's actions on stopping the counterfeiters.
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04-28-2014 03:03 PM  6 years ago
rcmiket

rrVeteran

El Paso,Texas

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Google and other search engines should have picked it up in their search engines.
Well there you go, problem solved.

Mike
"When Inverted down is up and up is expensive"
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04-28-2014 09:30 PM  6 years ago
heliman41&1/2

rrApprentice

Florida

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Yes. Google picked this thread up where it is available to anyone.

I wonder if Horizon has anyone monitoring what people are discussing concerning their products and service?

Thank for your comment.
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04-29-2014 06:20 PM  6 years ago
Rudy

rrVeteran

Houston TX/Bend OR

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I wonder if Horizon has anyone monitoring what people are discussing concerning their products and service?
No horizon product is being talked about in this thread

YOU BOUGHT A FAKE ITEM

Rudy Ackerman Houston TX/Bend OR
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04-29-2014 07:16 PM  6 years ago
Duckblind

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Overland Park, KS

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As someone that personally deals with this every day in optics manufacturing, you are fighting a losing battle. It has been said many times in this thread that Asian countries have very very lose if any laws regarding counterfeiting products. Us, the manufacture are nearly powerless to this battle. So your "They should be actively pursuing stopping this" is meaningless. I will explain, very simply.

We can't control other countries governments. The only, LITERALLY the only thing we can do is report, and hopefully assist with getting the ebay account shut down. To do this, we need Proof, ebay details, THE PRODUCT (which you didn't give them)for manufactures proof that it is indeed counterfeit. None the less, this is worthless because after all of that, shipping, time, money, aggravation.... MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!! The ebay seller has been banned!!!! Fast forward an hour, New Ebay account created, same item posted... Its a never ending loop, and until the other countries governments step in and impose laws, this will never end.

Us personally, have 0... yes ZERO. AUTHORIZED retailers on ebay for this reason.. Nor do we honor warranty on ebay sold items as these (even if real) are being sold by a private seller whom is considered the first owner. Warranty does not transfer. You must have a brick and mortar store front to have a dealer account and to retail our optics.

All we can do is inform and assists consumers prior to purchase to help ID and discourage the purchase of fake optics that will fail under firearm recoil very quickly. If the consumer is dying to find the bottom dollar, and neglects to call in and talk to our CS and Technical support prior to purchase, the only recourse is to seek a refund from the Ebay seller and hopefully provide enough proof to ebay that the seller is flipping fake items. But like i mentioned, he will be banned, and a new account opened within the hour and all items re listed.

Sorry for your troubles, I feel for you, as I hear about it daily. But know that we, the Manufacturers, are doing what we can to fight this, its just a very one sided battle at the time, and we are not holding the high ground.
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04-30-2014 01:13 AM  6 years ago
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Are getting hot under the collar?
No, the caps and colors were intended to bring you back to the reason for your initial post.

It seemed that you were drifting off to character assassination or at least caught up in attempting to marginalize the posts by PH7, Einzelganger, RCMiket, and Chet Whitford.

After re-focusing you on the question I had asked several times earlier, i.e. "What did you expect Horizon/Spektrum to DO", I did get your answers. In spite of the childish and imperious interjection of "DAVE" in caps, here is what you state you were expecting to happen:

1.
Horizon / Spektrum should pursue and TRY to stop counterfeit products from being sold in plain view to the unsuspecting public.
To which I have repeatedly replied -- "You don't KNOW what they are doing to stop the counterfeiters". A true statement. You ASSUME they are doing nothing. That is your assumption. It may be very far from the actual truth.

2.
They could have a NOTICE their website stating they will prosecute any and all person(s)manufacturing and/or selling counterfeit Spektrum products.
If this is the norm you expect, please go to the Futaba, Airronics/Sanwa, Hitec, Savox, JR, Graupner, Curtis Youngblood Enterprises, Great Planes/Tower Hobbies, Mikado, BeastX, OS Engines, YS Engines, DuBro... ...and various other hobby-related websites and post where you find that notice (or similar) displayed. You may be surprised to find it's simply not there.

Outside the hobby, Rolex, Gucci, Perlina, Coach, Nike, Adidas... ... are fighting the same problem. I don't believe they offer any of the same remedies on their websites that you ask. Maybe they don't care, either.

3.
they could ask for leads on where this is being done and follow up on those leads.
Refer to my previous response to item number 2 above.

4.
They could also post what action they are pursuing.
Refer again to my response to item number 2 above. And frankly, what they are doing with regard to legal matters concerning their daily business operations is actually none of your (or my) business.

5.
...if you want to know how to do, ask Ron Lund. He stopped thieves by posting their names/addresses and any other info on his website about them.
I was amused by that part of Ron's website. But you know, the list never actually GREW. It was a handful of people. And all these years later, the list is NOT part of his website. I would also venture that Ron has improved his e-commerce site. But I wouldn't be surprised if he (and countless other legitimate vendors) don't still get ripped off occasionally. Again, take a look at other vendor sites, RC hobby related or not. They ALL get ripped off from time to time, but nowhere on their sites do you see a list of bad guys.

6.
There is a difference between regular lumber and exotic lumber.
I suppose that Exotic Lumber is known for "Pole Dancing" whereas regular lumber just lays around and warps in the lumberyard.
Please, DAVE, tell how you disagree with this.
You're welcome.

-----

To their credit, Futaba has a very old document on their website warning of the presence of some counterfeit Gyros and Servos for sale. The document tells you how to spot the real McCoy and a fake.

Oddly enough, IN THAT DOCUMENT is the following sentence:
You must examine your purchases carefully to make sure you are buying only genuine Futaba products.
Please note that Futaba, although telling you there are counterfeits out there, does nothing more than put the onus back on the buyer to:
make sure you are buying only genuine Futaba products
Note they don't offer any of the remedies you expect of Horizon or Spektrum. And they certainly don't offer you any remedy directly, you are essentially being told "caveat emptor" -- let the buyer beware.

-----

One last item. The notice below now shows up in all Spektrum literature accompanying their products:

Notice in the disclaimer posted above, like the Futaba Gyro information, once again the onus is on YOU, the purchaser to make sure you are buying the real thing. How do you know? Purchase from authorized dealers. I think that pretty much eliminates the majority of the Ebay crowd.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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05-07-2014 11:07 AM  6 years ago
heliman41&1/2

rrApprentice

Florida

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Dave, I just don't buy into your defense of the company.

I still believe:

* Horizon / Spektrum could post pictures of original products even if not the current product.

* Horizon / Spektrum could provide info on what to look for to authenticate an original.

* Horizon / Spektrum could show an interest in stopping counterfeit products by asking for leads where counterfeit products are being sold, and stating what action they will take against counterfeiters. A perfect example is the music industry.

* Horizon / Spektrum could pass along information they obtained from customers on who and where counterfeit products are being sold.

Dave, can you change your mission:

* Making the World Better -- One RECEIVER at a time! *
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05-07-2014 01:30 PM  6 years ago
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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I am sorry you don't understand. Unfortunately, that's not MY problem.

What this boils down to is that your expectations are simply unrealistic and based on your opinion of how you think the world should operate. It would appear that no other manufacturer, whether it be hobby related or not, shares your opinion or follows your advice.

Why are you NOT holding other companies to the same standard?

The steps that you believe are necessary are steps that NO ONE in ANY manufacturing business does. As I tried to point out, take a look at ANY other manufacturer's/distributor's sites and go find where the steps you insist Horizon/Spektrum take have been implemented.

Horizon and Spektrum did nothing wrong here. Horizon and Spektrum are not evil merchants out to screw unsuspecting consumers.

Want to avoid counterfeits in the future? Buy from established vendors who buy their goods from the normal supply chain. Caveat Emptor.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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