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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Why real heli do not have flybar
04-12-2014 11:49 PM  5 years ago
teamdavey2001

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Sunnyvale, California, USA

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Knock yourselves out:

http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/lok_xh-51.php

Four blades and a four arm flybar

The "flybar" was a mechanical gyro that controlled blade cyclic pitch - it was acted on by the pilot via some clever spring packs to control the helo.
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04-13-2014 04:32 AM  5 years ago
UH-60PILOT

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Seoul, South Korea

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AirWolfRC, you said:
"semi-rigid" and "fully articulated" doesn't really clarify much unless you're already long in the business.
. . . and that's my point.
So, in your original comment you meant to ask:
You want a question?
(I don’t think anyone was soliciting a question that would take this discussion in some unrelated direction you wanted to take it in but, ok, I read it and you have to expect to get replies on inaccuracies in your posts) but maybe I'm wrong so I digress.
Why is there a (I think you meant to us an instead of a here) up-side-down airfoil on the tail boom producing down force on helis with a tetering (sp? teetering) head?

And a right-side-up airfoil producing up force on a teetering rotor head?
Do I have that right? Please clarify. Thanks.
Kenny Thompson
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04-13-2014 05:09 PM  5 years ago
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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I read it and you have to expect to get replies on inaccuracies in your posts
Yes . . . I did expect replys.
No . . . I didn't expect nit picking.

Is that clear enough ?
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04-13-2014 05:24 PM  5 years ago
Trexwilly

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FL USA

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Some serious panty bunching going on here...
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04-13-2014 06:25 PM  5 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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When the people on this list start attending Navy helo flight school,
. . . I'll give you that argument.
I did. However, I guess the very people who will be defending our nation in the future aren't relevant to you because you think they don't fly toy helicopters, huh?

And, if you're going to attempt, even incorrectly, to discuss a technical topic, please not only try to get the concepts right but also the terminology. Believe it or not, that last part actually matters.
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04-13-2014 09:47 PM  5 years ago
AirWolfRC

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Back in the day I spent my years keeping the helis in the air, specifically the CH53D's. The pilots, the guys who do the "yanking and banking" can't do the job without people like me. So you can keep your comments to yourself.

The point here was, and still is, that most people on this list don't have the definitions down pat like the "elite" few like you do.
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04-13-2014 11:19 PM  5 years ago
UH-60PILOT

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Seoul, South Korea

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AirWolfRC, You said:
Back in the day I spent my years keeping the helis in the air, specifically the CH53D's. The pilots, the guys who do the "yanking and banking" can't do the job without people like me. So you can keep your comments to yourself.
My reply: Before I was a pilot I was also a UH-60 helicopter mechanic so you're not in any position to play the high and mighty underdog card on me but thanks for trying.

You also said:
The point here was, and still is, that most people on this list don't have the definitions down pat like the "elite" few like you do.
I've been flying RC helis since I was 11 years old (34 years now) and within the first months of learning to fly I knew the difference between semi-rigid/teetered, articulated and rigid rotor systems. So, the point I'm making is that you are wrongfully assuming that most of the people reading this forum are un-educated about helicopters which ironically enough is a very elitist attitude you are displaying. I think most of the people here are a lot more "with it" than you give them credit for.
Kenny Thompson
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04-13-2014 11:40 PM  5 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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The point here was, and still is, that most people on this list don't have the definitions down pat
Quite obviously.
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04-13-2014 11:43 PM  5 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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Before I was a pilot I was also a UH-60 helicopter mechanic so you're not in any position to play the high and mighty underdog card on me but thanks for trying.
And, without us, he'd be irrelevant and wouldn't have a job. Even UAVs still have maintainers and "pilots", aka operators. I flew SH-60s in the Navy, by the way.
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04-14-2014 12:15 AM  5 years ago
AirWolfRC

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Neither of you two have provided much of anything useful to this thread.
It's been a while since I've added anyone to my Ignore list but you two have just been "promoted".
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04-14-2014 12:34 AM  5 years ago
HeimD

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Sweet, dude. Like that's some big loss or anything.
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04-14-2014 12:42 AM  5 years ago
revmix

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NJ

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r/c heli can fly [as the full scale] without FlyBar (2 bladed) or electronic FBL unit with low head-speed & flapping 'floating' grips, only tail gyro.
culprit is the ratio between the swash rotating-star small circle & wide grip-arm large circle [also servo travel, DR & Expo, servo arm length].
smoother & slower tilting of the tip path plane [unlike rigid setup 3D].
notice the drooping blades [450 & 600 flapping grips].

450
600
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04-14-2014 03:04 AM  5 years ago
UH-60PILOT

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Seoul, South Korea

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Wooo hoooo! By the powers vested in AirWolfRC I've been promoted fellas!
Neither of you two have provided much of anything useful to this thread.
It's been a while since I've added anyone to my Ignore list but you two have just been "promoted".
Kenny Thompson
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04-14-2014 05:13 AM  5 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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LOL
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04-14-2014 03:55 PM  5 years ago
revmix

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NJ

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LOL
for all related posts
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04-14-2014 05:31 PM  5 years ago
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Hey guys... this started out as a great topic that I found interesting. Lets not let it creep into name calling and banning.

I really want to do a 4 or 5 bladed scale heli some time. I am not really thinking of going without a FBL device.

Previous pictures showed "flapping hinges" -- I just don't see it. Could someone splain it to me.
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04-14-2014 07:25 PM  5 years ago
revmix

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NJ

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"flapping hinges"
it's a crude design, simple through-bolts on the spindles, slightly visible on the 6th pic; near the base of main-head at about 4 & 6 o'clock position behind grip-arms
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04-14-2014 08:29 PM  5 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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The old Kyosho Concepts had flapping hinges on a two bladed head instead of the feathering spindle design. It made for a nice stable hover and smooth forward flight but cyclic response was very mushy. You had to run super high head speeds (for the time) to crisp up the cyclic for anything remotely aggressive. Boom strike city, too, with a hard landing.
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04-14-2014 09:46 PM  5 years ago
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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OK... I think that I see it better in picture 5... bolt through the grip.

How much movement does this allow? are we talking inches at the end of the blade?
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04-14-2014 10:20 PM  5 years ago
AirWolfRC

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Ideally, flapping hinges aren't needed if the cyclic can produce the necessary Angle of Attack on the blades to keep the lift of each blade even throughout it's rotation at different forward speeds. Flapping helps when the cyclic can't keep up by allowing the blade to "fly up" as it becomes the "advancing blade" in forward flight.

Then the only need for "flapping" is to accommodate varying cone angles on the main rotor disk.
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