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04-10-2014 06:52 PM  4 years agoPost 1
chinooker

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Florence, KY

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Where can I find the flying format for scale helicopters for the nationals?

Thanks,
Mark

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04-10-2014 07:02 PM  4 years agoPost 2
Grimracer

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Eau Claire WI

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AMA 518...

Below

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/...CHelicopter.pdf

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

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04-10-2014 09:29 PM  4 years agoPost 3
gmcullan

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Southbridge, MA

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Rule 4.4 Rate Gyro on yaw axis only? If I'm reading this right, that would eliminate the legality of FBL and/or running a qyro in HH mode?

Are these rules out of date?

Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450

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04-10-2014 10:07 PM  4 years agoPost 4
Copter Doctor

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Enterprise/ft.rucker ,al- home of army aviation

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they must be, fbl units have been used in the recent years at the nats.

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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04-11-2014 12:25 AM  4 years agoPost 5
Notar

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Taxachussetts

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The rules have never been updated to allow or disallow FBL gyros.
Joe

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04-11-2014 01:42 PM  4 years agoPost 6
gmcullan

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Southbridge, MA

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Possibly a silly question, but if FBL units have been used at recent AMA Nats, and certainly gyros have been used in HH mode for years now, why would the rules not have been updated?

I've been involved with two major slot car organizations, MARC (Miniature Auto Racing Club, Director and Technical Inspector) and HOCOC (HO Circuit of Champions, Treasurer and Rules Committee) for years. Both organizations have yearly rules reviews and subsequent edits as required.

The AMA exceeds their combined membership many times over and I would hope they would take every effort to keep their rules refreshed and up to date so as to reflect the current "state of the art" with R/C helis.

Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450

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04-11-2014 02:00 PM  4 years agoPost 7
garyl

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taxachussetts

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The rules should be updated now that GPS stabilized gyros are out in full force.

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04-11-2014 02:12 PM  4 years agoPost 8
Notar

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Taxachussetts

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Nothing happens fast in AMA land as far as rule changes go. It seems to be a given at the Nats and other scale contests held, that FBL stab units are now the norm. I think what has to be written into the rules is that something like GPS cannot be used in your helicopter such as the DJI units provide.
Joe

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04-11-2014 09:06 PM  4 years agoPost 9
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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There is only one rule which needs changing and that is the part of rule 3 relating to metal blades

3. Model Requirements: There shall be no
limitation on the types of equipment that can be
fitted to the helicopter with exception of metal
main or tail rotor blades.
Each contestant shall be
permitted one (1) model entry.

Thus any FBL and gyro can be fitted including those which are GPS stabilized, and those need to be addressed before someone enters a model with a pre programmed flight plan and just presses the start button.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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04-11-2014 10:08 PM  4 years agoPost 10
Grimracer

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Eau Claire WI

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BINGO PETER!

I would guess we are very close to setting way points and pushing a button..

I will be done the day we allow that......(and heck.. i hardly got a start!) lol

yearly reviews "to me" are not necessary (BTY I to am an X slot racer too) but when technology changes we need to understand it and then decide to allow it (vote) or not.

I hate it when we "change" and do what we want before it is written to please others (at a national event). At the club level is where "said" changes area tested and tuned.

Does a proposal need to be drafted?

Grimracer

I personally dont want a "win" with an astrick attached to it.

Michael J Zaborowski

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04-11-2014 10:46 PM  4 years agoPost 11
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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There are 2 problems here
1) exactly what do you allow
2) How do you police it.

When the existing rules were being written, it was decided that as we could not police every electronic gadget which could be hidden inside a large scale heli fuse, we would allow them all. But that was before the days of GPS control and altitude stabilization. Now DJI and others have made these features possible, and they greatly benefit some pilots, how are you going to prevent them from being used in the NATs?

Or do you allow them and then it becomes a competition as to who is the best computer programmer

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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04-12-2014 12:31 AM  4 years agoPost 12
heliwreckr

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Battle Creek, Taxigan

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pardon my off-topic comment,
Call me a luddite, but i'll stick to my two thumbs

It's not crashed 'til it hits the ground

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04-12-2014 01:41 AM  4 years agoPost 13
Copter Doctor

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Enterprise/ft.rucker ,al- home of army aviation

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[quote]pardon my off-topic comment,
Call me a luddite, but i'll stick to my two thumbs[quote]
talk about separating the men from the boys aye?

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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04-12-2014 05:46 AM  4 years agoPost 14
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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I actually had to look that word up on the net... You had me stumped Carry on...
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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04-12-2014 09:15 AM  4 years agoPost 15
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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The rules
I am supposing that your competition is in 2 parts
Static, where the builder shows of their, building skills
Flying, where the pilot demonstrates their ability to fly their aircraft in a scale like manner

Here in the UK, if a scale helicopter,is on the judging table and it has a flybar, and the full size does not have a flybar, then, the head is not judged, no points,
If you fit a flybarless electronics, it is judged, and scores points

If two identical helis from the same supplier, are flying the same set manoeuvres, one with all the electrical gizmo's, one without, how is it possible for the judges to accurately judge the pilots ability

On the entry forms(UK) you sign a declaration to say you are the original builder, and all the work is your own, if this is not the case you self declare what parts are not your own work, and they are not judged

Same thing with all the electronics, if they are used have a percentage markdown, level the playing field
Peter R

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04-12-2014 11:32 AM  4 years agoPost 16
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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You put that very simply Peter, but how much percentage are you going to mark it down? You have to know how much of the flying is done by computer and if I am prepared to develop and fit an electronics suite in my model to make it fly the whole routine autonomously, how are you going to know? Tear my model apart to see whats in it and then go through my transmitter program to analyse the program?

As I said, making the rule is simple, policing it is damn near impossible.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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04-12-2014 04:19 PM  4 years agoPost 17
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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How are you going to know?
Peter, In short I do not know,
With the electronics switched on, a lift of the tail will show on the swashplate if stabilisation is being used
I did say a couple of years ago, fit a 3 way switch,off,flight mode, programed routine, it seems you are well on the way with the 3rd option
Possible solution, judge static, then spit into 2 class's stabilised, or not, it would mean another award, cup or whatever, but what the hell
Keep us up to date with your autonomous routine setup, very interesting
Peter R

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