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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsAlign 3G › Alternate, Albeit Direct, Power Supply To 3GX
04-09-2014 12:23 PM  4 years agoPost 1
icanfly

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ontario

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Saw this moments ago and like it.

Watch at YouTube

My nitro Shuttle fbl rebuild would like a fbl controller and I've read a little lately about the power supply problems to the 3gx. I like what the guy in the video did and I'll be running either two satellites only or an AR8000 rx with one satellite. I think the first option is the more attractive one out of simplicity because the shuttle is pod and boom.

I have a cc 10amp bec which will be unnecessary with a direct 7.4 batt power supply to the 3gx that way, seems only the most practical way to supply everything. Nice work to the vid guy for offering this alternative , many thanks.

And now I don't have to worry about the AR8000 single antenna being very close to the battery pack either, as Macklemore sings "this is fn awesome" .

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04-09-2014 04:10 PM  4 years agoPost 2
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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2S LiFe battery and a homemade "Y" harness plugged into the two lower horizontal connectors of the 3GX connector block.

Just use servos that will operate at 6.6 volts.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-09-2014 10:17 PM  4 years agoPost 3
icanfly

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ontario

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I have a 2s 2200mah 25c lipo that I want to use and will do a little research on the life variety next. The power is fed through the two horizontal connectors below the servos that's correct. The shuttle's not really worth more than 6.6v servos, but I believe the power supply will accommodate up to 8v as the power to the 3gx can be increased perhaps to 9v, however 3s would make power to 12v on a topped up battery. I'm going to investigate the potential next for future reference and post my findings.

great, simplicity at it's finest, one up for 3gx here

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04-10-2014 04:45 PM  4 years agoPost 4
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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3S LiPo...no. I believe the 3GX is good for up to 8.5 volts. A fully charged 3S LiPo will light up the unit and let the smoke out.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-10-2014 10:32 PM  4 years agoPost 5
icanfly

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ontario

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burn up unregulated of course made that mistake already

Whoopee I got it all connected and mostly working the correct servo actions. Coming from a bigger heli with somewhat different set up in the collective the gyro will have to be sorted out between formerly esc throttle and now fuel. Now it's got to move the throttle servo on the motor and collective pitch simultaneously, 4 servos opposed to 3 and the esc.

The FBL Shuttle is getting quite complete with a few mounting plates for the battery and 3gx. Then it'll be fire away and up up and aye.

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04-12-2014 12:34 AM  4 years agoPost 6
icanfly

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ontario

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Want to get your attention rather than editing the last post.

A dude at the hs says the direct 7.4 power source will burn up the 6v servos. The are all analogue on the cyclic and a digital on the tail, any thoughts on this?

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04-12-2014 12:43 AM  4 years agoPost 7
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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7.4 volt power and 6v servos don't mix. Bad things WILL happen.

Further, if you going to use analog servos with the 3GX unit, they will not survive very long, even if you use proper voltage. The 3GX unit updates servo position at 280 Hz, far above the acceptable frame rate for analog servos. You MUST use digital servos with the 3GX unit.

-----
Dave

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04-12-2014 01:53 AM  4 years agoPost 8
icanfly

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ontario

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I had a feeling that would be the case. Not hyper critical because the analogue servos are old JR's and I wouldn't trust them as far as I can throw them. The digital servo is a Turnigy 616mg. Will this 616 be better with 2 others as the collective group or should I look for something a little bigger?

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04-12-2014 02:32 AM  4 years agoPost 9
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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You are trying to set up a Hirobo Shuttle as I recall. Are you leaving the swash control as in the original kit (non-CCPM) or have you somehow modified it to a three servo CCPM arrangement?

The Turnigy 616MG is rated for operation uo to 8.4 volts. You would best serve your Shuttle by using the same type of servo to control the swashplate. This gives you the best chance to make sure you end up with equal travel, speed, and torque.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

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04-13-2014 04:25 AM  4 years agoPost 10
icanfly

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ontario

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yes modified to a 120 degree swash and got the servos working the correct movements to fly it, during a morning session on it.

The 3gx manual recommends 12kg servos, I think this is a deal breaker and I'll be looking for a different gyro now. The Turgy616's are 6kg servos. Yes I would compliment the one with two others for the swash and may continue to equip the shuttle regardless of the 3gx since it wants 12kg servos. (I may have interpreted that info incorrectly however) It was nice to dream while it lasted. I got the fuel prob of nitro to oil content figured out and a glow starter battery and am ready fire it up very soon. Ha, after the os32 runs and with a gyro its ready to fly, must vid the os start up and first take to the air.

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04-13-2014 05:06 AM  4 years agoPost 11
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Time to use your brain. The 3GX works just fine on the Trex 250, 450, and 500 without 12 kg cm servos. Your 20 year old Shuttle flew just fine with cheap S148 servos. The only real requirement is for three matching digital servos. You already have a TGY 616. Get two more and install the 3GX unit and fly.

The DS515 servos at 5 kg cm handle my Gaui NX4 just fine.

That 12 kg cm thing is for much bigger birds than a Shuttle.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-13-2014 01:58 PM  4 years agoPost 12
icanfly

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ontario

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yes thanks, I knew the 12kg thing in the manual was inaccurate because the 3gx is used on the smaller helis with micro servos. The Shuttle/3gx mission is on again.

I learned something about servos today, how to equip a heli with appropriate kg ratings. In a high speed machine with 18degree pitch would a 24kg servo be best? One of those math things of blade area/pitch=servo kg minimum.

The increased area of the Thunder Tiger blades the suttle has on now will put more strain on the old analogue servos perhaps burning them out in hard maneuvers, not going to risk the heli.

Looks like the 3gx will make it back on the Shuttle.

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04-13-2014 03:41 PM  4 years agoPost 13
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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The analog servos would die with the 3GX because it outputs servo position updates at 280 Hz. Most analog servos were designed for an update rate of 50 to 60 Hz maximum. The servo electronics simply can't handle higher rates.

-----
Dave

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Team Heliproz

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04-13-2014 04:00 PM  4 years agoPost 14
icanfly

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ontario

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Right, that's really helpful to know because it would mean upgrading ALL the servos to digital then. I may hold off with the 3gx until I have 2 more 616s for the cyclic and one for the throttle and another for the tail. The most economical will be to get a gyro that functions with the analogue servos for now and later decide if the heli is worth the expense of all hv digitals and the 3gx. Options options.

I ran up the os32 a few minutes ago with astounding success, here's a pic of the oil patch left behind, see the nail? as in NAILED IT , started on the third pull when the ground wire was properly clipped to the motor

It idled fine and was run wot for a several seconds without a problem what-so-ever, even the removable pull starter I made up dropped out out nicely (I video'd it and you can see me fumble beneath the the heli to take it out from under), blades were removed and only the JR NES 507 throttle servo was hooked up to a Spektrum rx with a 10amp bec and the 7.4 lipo utilized. Linkages, gyro, fuel, blades, get up and GO.

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04-13-2014 05:37 PM  4 years agoPost 15
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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A couple of items to keep in mind.

The CC "10 amp" regulator ISN'T a 10 amp regulator. With less than 12VDC input, it is good for about 7 amps continuous with peaks of 10 amps. Still, it should do well in your application.

One of the reasons you see symmetrical airfoils used in helicopter main rotor applications is that with changing angles of attack, the center of pressure remains relatively unchanged. The center of pressure is located along the chord line at the same distance from the leading edge as the blade attachment bolt location. What does that mean for helicopter use?

There is a vector of lift on the top side of the symmetrical blade, and a vector of lift on the bottom side of the symmetrical blade. The origin of each vector is the center of pressure. As the two vectors originate at the center of pressure and oppose each other, with the center of pressure located at the same distance from the leading edge as the blade attach bolts, there is NO torque acting on the blade making it want to increase or decrease pitch as it goes round and round. The servo(s) responsible for maintaining the desired pitch see little or no variation in load as the blades go round and round.

Semi symmetrical or flat-bottomed blades will produce more lift, however their center of pressure moves back and forth along the chord line as the angle of attack changes. This puts a varying load on the servo(s) responsible for maintaining the blade pitch.

-----

As for needing digital servos with the 3GX -- a while back I had converted one of my 450s to FBL using the 3GX. After the change over, I couldn't figure out why the servos were acting strange. Suddenly, it dawned on me that I had Hitec HS65's installed. Nice analog servos for the 450 class heli, but not digital. They got hot real fast even though they were just sitting there at idle. Fortunately I realized my mistake before I roasted the servos.

Often, as technology advances, you need to move along with it. If that means leaving analog servos behind, that's the price of admission.

-----

As for your upgrade path, you either need to buy two more TGY 616's to match the one you already have, OR you need to buy three other servos AND a different FBL controller. Math tells me the path of least resistance (and cost) is a couple more TGY 616 servos (well, maybe three, as you'll want a throttle servo that can work with the 3GX). The rudder gyro setup for the 3GX allows you to select digital OR analog type tail servo, so an analog servo for the tail would be fine.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-14-2014 02:19 AM  4 years agoPost 16
icanfly

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ontario

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Thanks again for getting in here, I see the variables because of the info you've added.

I am eyeing a set of Align hv 12kg servos atm, those spec'd for a 600/700 copter, can't go wrong and they are the same size as everything else. 3 for the cyclic, one for the throttle and shes ready and can be flying right away.

Sometimes when you put new gear on an old item the old stuff fails. This shuttle hasn't got my heart, a totally self designed and fabricated one might, it will speak of my likes in these helis, and man can I really fly, you better believe it.

This nitro shuttle bird won't be used quite as much as my 300 when all it's electronic issues are sorted out. I think I'll use the shuttle fbl to take some aerial ap/v and see what the results might produce. That's it's intended use at the end of the day. One paying job later and the rest is history. Then it's time to play. It's also my first return to a nitro rc thing in many many years, many.

dkshema, your replies are much appreciated

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04-14-2014 03:12 AM  4 years agoPost 17
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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You're just way too hard over on the 12 kg cm servos thing. It's a 20 year old Shuttle. Align DS 610s are fine but are way overkill.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-16-2014 03:50 AM  4 years agoPost 18
icanfly

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ontario

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I'm keeping in mind the "upgrade" thing for what it might become in the future, and the Align's are ready to mount anyway, run what ya got kinda thing, no rush anyway.

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