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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › IS All Nitro Fuel The Same
04-08-2014 05:44 PM  4 years agoPost 1
icanfly

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ontario

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Car, Heli, Plank, Truggy? I told the hs guy I wanted a liter of nitro fuel for a heli 30% and got one some months ago. This morning I go to try start my Shuttle os motor and test all the parameters to start, does the glow work, are the batteries sufficient, does the extension to the glow plug work, etc? But it seems I did not factor that the fuel I got in a one liter jug was for car.

I understand there are different percentages of nitro for different uses , all I wanted to do was run up my Shuttle for the first time and test the removable manual starter. I believe I got a tiny spin from the os32 at one point but it didn't bite, the fuel might be too old and lack enough nitro to run the motor.

What are your thoughts?

The shuttle is nearing completion with the fbl head mod finished, and only a few things to mount while utilizing a 3gx from Align as the controller (off a 700e). It's looking real fine lately, pics to come.

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04-08-2014 05:54 PM  4 years agoPost 2
nitro fun

rrApprentice

Oc ca

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That little carb may be plugged up.

Old fuel will still burn but have no power.

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04-08-2014 06:01 PM  4 years agoPost 3
bkervaski

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Birmingham, AL, USA

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Heli fuel has a different oil package, generally around 20%. That fuel doesn't have enough oil, you will burn up the motor.

You got a great brand, just the wrong fuel.

But I don't think this is the reason it won't start. I should still start, but I wouldn't do it with only 12% oil, it will run hot and probably seize up and likely kill some puppies in the process.

Team Synergy Factory Specialist / Scorpion / Thunder Power / Byron's Fuels

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04-08-2014 06:17 PM  4 years agoPost 4
Andy from Sandy

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Bedfordshire, UK

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One of the key ingredients to a cool running engine is the amount of fuel entering the combustion chamber. This in rush of cool gas helps to keep the piston cool.

OS recommend the amount of oil probably as way to help protect from lean runs. If you tune the engine correctly there is no reason for it to burn up or seize up.

In comparison look at other two stroke engines that run at very high speed on a 50:1 mixture whereas we are being told to use a 3:1 or 4:1 mixture.

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04-08-2014 06:35 PM  4 years agoPost 5
icanfly

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ontario

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true true, as in most two strokes depending on use/load/compression the amount of oil to fuel ratio is important. Had I seen the amounts earlier the purchase would have been refused.
carb may be plugged up.
yup, gotta take the sucker out and give it a good scrub (did I or didn't I) jus like old motor bikes I've worked on, old gas makes terrible shellac.

I'm glad it didn't run right away after reading about it possibly frying. A heli is almost wot all the time where-as a car is up and down throttle a lot.

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04-08-2014 07:42 PM  4 years agoPost 6
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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A heli is almost wot all the time where-as a car is up and down throttle a lot.
Most would disagree with this statement, especially when only hovering, as you mentioned.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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04-08-2014 08:46 PM  4 years agoPost 7
jharkin

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Holliston, MA - USA

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2 stroke gasoline engines can run 50:1 because they have needle bearings on the rod and gas has natural lubricity. Also more cooling fins since they don't rely on unburned oil to carry away heat.

Running that little oil will destroy a model nitro/methanol engine that has bushings on the rod. Don't try it.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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04-08-2014 09:01 PM  4 years agoPost 8
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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for helis we run almost exclusively synthetic oil. it will protect your engine (that runs at 80 to 90% throttle all the time) without leaving a residue that caster oil will leave. Castor will run, but you don't want the build up in the engine on a heli. Its not as much of a deal breaker with a car or an airplane, but a heli, you really should be running synthetic oil. and while it will run on 12% tuning it will be difficult.

Now Caster will protect you from a lean run better than Synthetic because it offers a wider range of over temp protection than synthetic.

12% also is better designed for higher compression engines. (not an OS heli engine.

Is the engine new? if you have run it prior (or someone else did) did they run the fuel out each time? This process will help prevent the rust that will form in the engine from the Nitros natural water "wicking" properties.

So to sum up, it can run on that fuel, but its going to be difficult to tune.

Your better off with a more common brand of fuel say 20% nitro minimum and 30% Nitro is best. Oil should be 18 to 22%

An awful lot does depend on the age and prior usage of that
OS-32

edit the Nitro percentage effects tuning not so much the oil, I was incorrect in my prior statements.

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04-08-2014 10:09 PM  4 years agoPost 9
icanfly

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ontario

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the os has good compression, I didn't take the head off to inspect for a wear ring but did get into the back of it. Being familiar with seized motorcycle motors I went through the routine. It was seized when I got it. It doesn't matter too much if it has balls or is a wimpy old 32, if it runs at least the heli can be tuned and flown for a bit. Then I can consider upgrading to a 50 and top start clutch of the zxx variety as well as going to a 600 boom and blades (like my berp plug yet to be reproduced in cf 600s).

I have a TT 50 (90) frame ad several parts in order to build a 600 fbl e conversion with the parts, but itds no rush. Another heli I bought into is an ols Robbe Spirit Pro kit nib that'll need electronics. I am thinking of making it fbl also. It's the lessons of the old that helps forward us toward appreciating the brands that brought the hobby to where it is today. Looks like a lot of new stuff are only variations on what has been done long ago with the exception of fbl, e, digital, 2.4, difference being cnc, anodizing, and the hs servos.

Is nitro dead, hardly, nice to know with all the info offered so far what to protect the heli from, a woops moment, those are the little things that upset the apple cart of a fully functioning and costly heli. Those minor tuning and fuel mistakes are probably why I don't see many guys out flying the nitro ones much. Electric is cool and all, but fuel does give longer flight times.

I'm on the trail to designing parts to make nitro/fuel a bit more simple in terms of what is in ones buddy box too.

All good info at the beginning of the flying season, tanhks so far.

Is that add a few drops of synthetic to a tank to make the smoke trail? All the off the shelf fuels are pre-mix correct?

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04-08-2014 10:14 PM  4 years agoPost 10
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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y. I'm not sure I would try but I've added to ounces to a gallon beforeou can buy synthetic oil at the hobby shop. if you wanted to add it you would need to figure out how many ounces in a gallon calculator 12 oil if you want to get it 18 you gotta figure that percentage outI think you're in the neighborhood of two to four ounces per gallon

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04-08-2014 10:17 PM  4 years agoPost 11
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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I think the problem is your plug getting eight or better yet find Enya3

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04-08-2014 10:38 PM  4 years agoPost 12
icanfly

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ontario

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plug getting eight
not sure I understand that.

I see what your all suggesting, add the difference of oil to make the fuel safe to run, 20% nitro will work but increase the oil to 20% with an additional 8% in the liter. That one is easy if a liter is 1000gr then 8% is 80gr, this can be measured on my digital jewelers scale I weigh most all my parts on, or with a kitchen syringe from a dollar store (not the one in the kitchen for eatables, nitro contains cancer causing chemicals and tastes like fooee you die if ingested yikes).

(I have some spilled nitro scent on my fingers right now, one reason to dislike the stuff, like gasoline soaked into the skin doesn't go away for awhile, must wear gloves when handling)

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04-09-2014 12:06 AM  4 years agoPost 13
jharkin

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Holliston, MA - USA

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The oil content is measured by volume, not weight.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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04-09-2014 06:36 PM  4 years agoPost 14
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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OK guys.. correct me if I am wrong here..

1 gallon is 128 oz, if you have 12% oil and you want 20% your short 8%

8% of 128 oz = 10.24 oz per gallon. add 10 oz to your full gallon jug, (not really possible byt you get the idea)

If you have a quart divide this number by 4 or add 2.56 oz per quart (to a full quart bottle.)

I think these numbers are pretty close, its the full gallon and full quart that gets me confused

links to similar discussions below
https://rc.runryder.com/t377265p1/

https://rc.runryder.com/t483311p2/

http://nitrorc.com/fuelws/

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04-09-2014 07:47 PM  4 years agoPost 15
jharkin

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Holliston, MA - USA

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Close... but not exactly.

you have a gallon of 12% oil content fuel. Right now it has ~ 15oz of oil in it.

Now add 10oz of oil. So the fuel has now 25oz of oil and the total volume of the jug is now 138oz, not 128oz.

25 / 138 = 18.4% oil.

In the real world that should be good enough if you are not running on the bleeding edge of lean.

(note that by doing this you slightly diluted the nitro content also. probably not enough to notice)

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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04-09-2014 10:54 PM  4 years agoPost 16
icanfly

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ontario

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that's some interesting math, thanks for clearing up what was needed, the hs guy realized what was up and elected to search for an open bottle of oil to give to me and fix the problemo.

Seems the most economical fuel is gasoline and after spending twice what a nitro motor costs to get a gas motor the pump gas is the cheapest form of fuel source compared to lipos and nitro, gas and go, almost anywhere anytime.

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04-09-2014 11:48 PM  4 years agoPost 17
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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Sounds like you'll get your mixture fixed up. In the past with planks, I always kept a bottle of castor around to add to whatever fuel I had. Over the top yes, but I've never fried a glow engine. My first engine is nearly 35 years old and still runs like a watch. The varnish only seems to be a problem if the engine sits for a long time. Then it is like glue holding all the internals together til bathed in fresh fuel.

To me, the smell of nitro means cool toys and play time. Gasoline just smells like work. My two cents.

I love this hobby. I doubt I'll ever try to make it cheap.

Wayne

I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman

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04-10-2014 01:10 AM  4 years agoPost 18
jharkin

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Holliston, MA - USA

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Seems the most economical fuel is gasoline and after spending twice what a nitro motor costs to get a gas motor the pump gas is the cheapest form of fuel source compared to lipos and nitro, gas and go, almost anywhere anytime.
A gasser is actually not that much more expensive at all, if you are comparing the same size class.

Price out an OS or YS 90 class engine and pipe.

Then price out a TRM or Hanson modified Zenoah and century pipe.

I think you would be surprised. The nitro actually is more upfront $$ typically.
In the past with planks, I always kept a bottle of castor around to add to whatever fuel I had. Over the top yes, but I've never fried a glow engine. My first engine is nearly 35 years old and still runs like a watch. The varnish only seems to be a problem if the engine sits for a long time. Then it is like glue holding all the internals together til bathed in fresh fuel.
I still have a couple nitro planks (Saito 4 strokers mostly) and thats what I do. I buy cool power mv synthetic blend and then add about 3 oz of Sig AAA castor to each gallon. That works out to about 2% castor and brings the total oil to ~20% which is just right for saitos and has just enough castor to give you some lean run protection without causing a lot of varnish.

I have a buddy who runs his motors on Omega and that does gum them up.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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04-10-2014 01:18 AM  4 years agoPost 19
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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I have a saito 91 (black head) and I ran cool power 15 intially but I just buy the 30% cool power by the case and use it as is in my Saito. I might try adding some caster to the saito gallon but I would be increasing the 18% that I think cool power 30% Nitro has in it. (I think its 18-22 but dont recall how much oil is in the CP30

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04-10-2014 02:39 AM  4 years agoPost 20
icanfly

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ontario

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the smell of nitro
ahhhh, I understand the fragrance "au du nitruo" ala TOP FUEL DRAGSTERS brings me back when all I knew of were those Cox 049 line control stunt wing (up, up and,,,,,,crash), always took two people to fly. Recovered an old 049 with prop last year.

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