RunRyder RC
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 1618 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Simulators are frustrating
03-16-2014 07:30 PM  4 years agoPost 21
Trexwilly

rrVeteran

FL USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Exactly. Anyone looking for realism with a sim should burn $150.00 each time they crash.

Mike
That won't make it any more real.

Wind, bugs, drift, the sun, the heat, or the cold, and the biggest of all, the fear. The fear of loss, the fear of cost, the fear of hitting yourself, or your car, or someone else or their car, kid or pet...

Sims are great for learning the muscle memory, and getting comfortable with all orientations... But in the end, burning fuel out in the real world makes you great!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2014 10:51 PM  4 years agoPost 22
rcmiket

rrVeteran

El Paso,Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That won't make it any more real.
Sure it would.

Mike

"When Inverted down is up and up is expensive"

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2014 10:59 PM  4 years agoPost 23
Heli Fanatix

rrVeteran

Fountain Valley, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I run a flight school and have prefer to use the Real Flight SIM. I'm not a big fan of putting unnecessary wear and tear to my TX and to mention bringing my dirty TX in the house.

After helping so many earn thier strips .... I have notice a lot of things to will make the learning curving easier:

- some folks want the "wow factor" and not interested in the SIM
- depth and angle preception is harder to recognize
- developing not so good habits:
"keeping the heli close to keep orientation"
- SIM TX case and stick ends are a bit different than your TX you use to
fly (very important for thumbers)
- Most of the time sitting while SIM-int and not in your natural flying position
- SIM too long and your eye hand cordination goes away
(Unlike flying for 4-5 minutes at a time)

But with that being said, we have to realize the SIM is merely a tool. We can't treat it like an actual heli during actual flying session (a bit ironic eh?). Simply use SIM to learn and hone your manuevers .... Not fly it around as you would with a real Heli (since its tough to see the heli as you turn, than use the binocular window to see the heli when it's out of view. A lot of processing when you are learning). When it comes to flying, seeing is everything.

In the beginning .... There are so many times I was doing tail down transitioning to nose down back to tail down going CW & CCW for up right and inverted. I learn the manuevers on the SIM and got it down in actual flying, but when I try to practice a complete flight routine ...I couldn't get it on the SIM and struggled for 2 hours and I felt my flying was regressing. It would bother me so much that I would take the helicopter and go fly it and I was fine. This happened about 20 times before I realize it's easier in life than the SIM because of the conditions I mentioned above. But once you're more experience and you have less problem on the SIM because you kindda know where everything should be. It's like flying on overcast days without a canopy once you have a lot more experience.

I have try setting up the SIM exactly like my helicopter and vice versa. Tweaking with SIM's pyshics and setting. My biggest break through was getting my Logo 600 with V Bar. Everything translate exactly vice versa.

I have 2 stories:

Story # 1
Had a client that did nothing but practice on SIM for 3 months. Did everything the way I suggested and on his first flight (after i saw he was ready) .... buddy box him with a Logo 500SE. After 10 flights he flew his first Solo on his very own Logo 500SE that I built for him. Performing up right and inverted circuits in both directions and half piro's. He never few in the typical pitfall:
Micros
300X or 450X
500 class
550 class
600 class and up

All the usual wasted efforts focus on a nice reliable machine with plenty to spare.

Story # 2
Had a client that doesn't like to SIM and prefer the real deal. Wants to wrench and setup his own machine. After 50 buddy box sessions (we fly 3 times a week for 2 hr ... About 5 flights). We have just completed basic forward flight.

Conclusion:
SIM are great tools to learn with but not a replacement for your actual flying routine. It lacks the most vital of visual orientation (when you are new) for flying around but will let you practice new manuever. Its like a hammer .... You can use it build something but you still need to know what you are doing.

Besides ... Where can you get a perfectly setup heli and a puch of a botton?

Hope this helps!?!?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2014 11:22 PM  4 years agoPost 24
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I know for a fact that my sim upset training saved my heli this morning. My goal is to flip, twist, rotate and turn continuously for as long as possible.

It is fantastic orientation training...

I got blown out of a giant loop this morning... caught it and saved the price of the sim right there. Darn right I support the use of simulators.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2014 12:50 AM  4 years agoPost 25
Mnstorm07

rrNovice

Manchester, CT

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Just a quick note as I see we are way off topic (SHOCK!)

This was not to say sims are bad, exactly like the real thing, necessary or not necessary. Sims are a tool, and the very best money you'll ever spend. It was about SIMS ARE FRUSTRATING! And not just because some things are easier in the sim...on the contrary, I find many things easier in real life. The unknown variables of the real world that we all are so used to you don't even notice, make SIMS feel awkward at times. Other times, for example, piro's (Almost every type) are way easier in SIMS. None of this changes the fact, they are frustrating :P

I will say, the people I know that quit flying, I blame mostly on not using a SIM, specifically when starting out.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2014 01:37 AM  4 years agoPost 26
Pascal-KC

rrKey Veteran

Kansas City, KS, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I love my simulators. I take them for what they are. A great help in my learning curve. Certainly not the end goal. No frustration.

Team Mikado, Team Revolectrix, KBDD Team Pilot

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2014 04:08 AM  4 years agoPost 27
bobc1

rrApprentice

Southern California

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Similar to a previous post: Set the physics speed on RF7 up 25% from normal. This makes the sim slightly more difficult and less stable, more like the real thing.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2014 11:39 AM  4 years agoPost 28
Retired2011

rrElite Veteran

Lee's Summit, MO

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm not a big fan of putting unnecessary wear and tear to my TX and to mention bringing my dirty TX in the house.
How in the world are you getting your TX too dirty to bring in the house?
Sounds like you're abusing it way more than using it for sim practice could ever do.

I love using my regular TX for the sim...I always have the same feel.
If I wear it out, highly unlikely, I get a new one.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2014 12:21 PM  4 years agoPost 29
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You need to tweak a sim model so it flies as closely to your real one as possible, then make it a bit harder/more unstable to fly.
+1.

In Phoenix I do a number of things. Add more weight to the model (less floaty feel), lower the blade inertia (they auto far too easily as standard), add more expo, increase the simulation speed, add more vortex lift loss (I think thats how they put it?), add more cyclic power loss, adjust piro rate, and the main one... SET AS STANDARD FLYBAR, not FBL.

You will also find the sim easier if your real model isn't flying well due to setup issues.

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2014 02:26 PM  4 years agoPost 30
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Big Difference...
I have to agree that a sim, no matter which you have/prefer, is the best tool in the tool box.... for new pilots, cannot be beat.. for pro's, practice that new move until you can do it with your eyes shut!!!!!And for us OLD SCHOOL (old farts!!!:eek an extremely great sleeping pill

But I have to agree that the big difference between the sim and real life flying is the reset button on the sim... that is your CC in real life, and I think that is what puts the brakes on when the new pilot gets out to the flight line...it is called reality!!!!

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2014 03:47 PM  4 years agoPost 31
BradNewman

rrApprentice

Orange, Tx-USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You will also find the sim easier if your real model isn't flying well due to setup issues.
I agree!
To the OP,
It is highly likely that since your are having trouble transitioning from the sim to actual flight, that your set up may need some adjusting. Proper set up will make a huge difference. The problem is that proper set up is not easy, it takes a lot of experience. The list of things to tweak is long. If at all possible, I would suggest having someone with a lot of experience go through your bird with you to ensure that you are headed in the rite direction setup wise.
Good luck!

Remember to keep everything balanced!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2014 04:18 PM  4 years agoPost 32
Skaluf

rrVeteran

Champaign, IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A couple of things to remember when useing a sim, and I'm mostly talking about the features found in RealFlight. When flying an actual model, we don't fly in a vacuum, so make sure you turn up the wind and turbulence to values that are more or less like those you would actually fly in. Also, set the View Mode to Keep Ground in View. This view mode allows the sim to attempt to keep the ground in view as you fly. And, tweak the aircraft a bit to your liking. Set the throw amounts the same as you have them on your actual aircraft. There is not much that is not adjustable in the sim.

Finally, when flying, fly like you would when you are actually at the field. In other words, unless you are just messing around, fly in front of you, over the runway, not through the pits etc. Fly at one of the Photofields of actual model flying sites. This will give you the feel of flying at an actual model site, with the normal obstacles etc.

Steve

Steve Kaluf
Hobbico

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2014 09:17 PM  4 years agoPost 33
Four Stroker

rrElite Veteran

Atlanta

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It's peripheral vision and lack of depth perception that simulators can't match. They are just like flying with one eye and 90 degree blinders.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2014 03:22 AM  4 years agoPost 34
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Four Stroker. Indeed!

The issue of perception. The fact that in real life you have to turn your head and body to keep it "in front of you." Subtle but requires motor skills or orientation adaptation. Also, the noise.

How about depth perception or lack thereof depending on lighting. Shadows or lack thereof to determine position. Wind. Gusts. The visual issues of the disk disapearring in certain light/angles. The canopy silhouetting in certain light.

Stuff that the sim just doesn't do.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2014 04:01 AM  4 years agoPost 35
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

stuff the sim can't do? Is fly a real one for you.

I got off mine a minute ago and make sure the last flight is a non crasher, that means I land it but in the most difficult of orientations to me aimed nose in 45deg to the right. I spent all of 10 minutes to refresh myself of inverted and all the sessions of winter in one or two quick flights, no need to "learn" any more. An afternoon session in the backyard with reality and a handful of near misses including in the sun and then on it's way into a neighbors yard with my wee 300. The sim helped not to over-react. take it for what it can do, not what you want from it if it means replacing some aspect of reality you find could be circumvented by the sim, won't happen. As bad or good as a sim can be nothing will replace reality at the end of the day.

I like the sim because you can adjust the settings to suit whatever you want to learn from it, screw around with it, but always only up to the point it conveys which is a two dimensional view.

Don't let it frustrate you, let it teach you to manage it. The sim is borderline toy, tool, practice, substitute, but never the real thing, ever. That's where you have to know and love and caress and massage and gingerly ask it not to talk back or act wonky or go on tantrums or, or, or? treat the real baby like a race car, with kid gloves. Treat the sim heli like crap all you want it don't care.

good luck, the weather is improving, I fly any weather from now on, it's fun, wind was blowing my 300 around but it doesn't matter, the sim sessions have paid off. I'm very happy I invested in mine and I can't do half the stuff in reality I do in the sim. It does give me a very good idea what to anticipate.

Do as others in the early sim development stages did, MAKE IT WORK.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2014 01:14 PM  4 years agoPost 36
Four Stroker

rrElite Veteran

Atlanta

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have an old XTR simulator. The lighting realism is actually quite good. There are fields with bright sun and others with totally overcast sky and combinations. The wind blows if you want it to. My only real complaints are that depth perception is gone and the complete lack of orientation when the horizon is off the screen (which Steve mentioned) - practicing 180 auto's. You have to use clouds as reference points. The aerodynamic realism is acceptable. I spent a lot of time tuning a heli to match my real (toy) one.

Simulators are great for learning which way to push the stick. I learned by crashing back in the 80's. There were some cartoon simulators then.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-19-2014 03:23 AM  4 years agoPost 37
Trexwilly

rrVeteran

FL USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yup, use them for what they are good for, but for me... the fun is at the field!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-19-2014 05:32 AM  4 years agoPost 38
HeimD

rrVeteran

the great southwest

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm not a big fan of putting unnecessary wear and tear to my TX and to mention bringing my dirty TX in the house.
Man, how badly do you treat your expensive, sensitive electronic gear? So badly that it's too dirty to bring inside? That's pretty bad.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
03-20-2014 06:18 PM  4 years agoPost 39
Ladymagic

rrKey Veteran

South Korea

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A sim is a great tool. As far as how well it translate to real life flight is pretty darn close IMHO. All be it not perfect, it does allow you learn how you and your heli react during a given manuaver without putting you or your stuff at risk. I'm all for it and without hesitation, I can say that I have practiced stuff on the sim and once I got it right, I was able to put those new skills to work for real right away afterwards.

The key is to tweak the sim to match your real heli's characteristics as best you can. No crazy headspeeds, no insane piro rates and no improbable power and servo setups. This might sound silly, but I fly the sim the same as I would my real heli. And in the beginning, I actually used to tune my real machines based off of the sim. Headspeeds, cyclic rates, piro rates and all. That worked very well for me.

I set boundries and practices so that I do not develope bad habits that can carry over to real flight time. I gained confidence on autos solely off of RF G3.5. And the hang time was nearly exactly accurate the real thing. The newer RFs aren't the same for some reason and it's actually much harder for me to get used to, but the concepts are still the same.

Your only real job is to learn each manauver well enough to be able to adapt them to whatever you fly. No heli is exactly the same as another and no real flight is exactly the same as it would be on a sim, but the basic flying concepts will never change and should translate over well from one to the other with little or no confusion as long as you keep your sim flights as realistic as possible.

Mellisa

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-20-2014 06:42 PM  4 years agoPost 40
don s

rrElite Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Sims save money. Life is frustrating.

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 1618 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Simulators are frustrating
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 12  Topic Subscribe

Thursday, August 16 - 9:29 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online