RunRyder RC
WATCH
 1 page 906 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsV-Bar › don't wanna go pro
03-12-2014 03:16 AM  4 years agoPost 1
utahbob

rrVeteran

St. George Utah

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So I've been flying my logo 550sx for a month or so with minivbar and liking it but I can't get my flip/roll rate quick enough to suit me; my flyin buddy tells me I gotta get the pro. upgrade to speed things up; my question is anybody out there use express and get good performance and how'd you do it? Thanks!

I do a great decending funnel!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-12-2014 04:20 AM  4 years agoPost 2
captrlp

rrVeteran

Spanish Fork, Utah - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Assuming your cyclic was setup to 8 degrees, you can change dual rates to increase or decrease roll rates.

Logo 480Xxtreme, Logo 550SX, Logo 600SX, Logo 700Xxtreme, Logo 800Xxtreme

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
03-12-2014 05:07 AM  4 years agoPost 3
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You can do your cyclic at 10 degrees instead of 8 to increase roll rate. It's a hack way of doing it but will increase the roll rates.
I would get pro. Safer and easier way.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-12-2014 05:11 AM  4 years agoPost 4
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Nothing on the express software holds back the maximum flip or roll rate.
Cyclic depends mostly on the type of blades and RPM you use. If that is not a good combination for the heli, increasing the agility won't do anything but make the heli skittish off center stick.

First, as captrlp said, you need to set the correct reference angle for ANY FBL unit, and then, the roll and flip rate is controled by your stick command via ATV or dual rates.

Team Minicopter - PeakAircraft.com
bavarianDEMON- Team Kontronik - Scorpion Motors-

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-12-2014 11:24 AM  4 years agoPost 5
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You can increase your endpoints to get a faster flip and roll rate, you can increase your Hs or use FB blades. All will do what you want. Just upgrading to pro will not make it any faster...

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-13-2014 12:02 AM  4 years agoPost 6
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yes, that's right. Upgrading to pro alone won't change anything. You would have to know what settings to work with...obviously.
If you're at the limit with endpoints and raising agility no longer has an effect, then pro will help.
Also, it can depend on just what you mean by "I can't get my flip/roll rate quick enough". There's average rate but some like it to feel more snappy. It's a feel thing. Paddle simulation helps some people with this.
There are other settings that help with this too...that's why they charge a premium for them. It's up to the individual whether you want to, or are capable to use them. You should be able to get it pretty good without.

Oh yeah, upping head speed is a very good way too, up to a limit anyway. Of course it is more efficient to be able to achieve the performance you want at a lower speed. Upping head speed is a better suggestion if you are looking for more collective performance...not so good a suggestion for just upping cyclic.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-13-2014 03:05 AM  4 years agoPost 7
utahbob

rrVeteran

St. George Utah

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

express or pro
Thanks guys for the replies; this is my experience with flybarless; my best flying flybarred heli is my trex600 nitro; I have superstubs on the flybar and it flips and rolls without having to move the sticks offcenter very far; so that is what I'd like to achieve on the logo; hopefully without adding the expense and complexity of the pro software--I am running 2300 on the head which seems high enough so I guess I will try raising cyclic throw fo 8 degrees to 10; I have been moving the slider in the vbar setup screen higher without any effect; I have it set to the "vivid" setting which I was told would make it more agile.

I do a great decending funnel!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-13-2014 03:25 AM  4 years agoPost 8
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yes, that's right. Upgrading to pro alone won't change anything. You would have to know what settings to work with...obviously.
If you're at the limit with endpoints and raising agility no longer has an effect, then pro will help.
Few things to get straight. First of all you cannot raise the agility slider in the Express software, it does not exist:

Oh yeah, upping head speed is a very good way too, up to a limit anyway. Of course it is more efficient to be able to achieve the performance you want at a lower speed. Upping head speed is a better suggestion if you are looking for more collective performance...not so good a suggestion for just upping cyclic.
Secondly, upping the HS will always make a Heli quicker and have move collective pop. There is simply more leverage for the FBL system to work with. Try dropping your HS to 1000 and try a flip. Then go back to 2300 and try that same flip
That being said, 2300 is plenty HS and if you want a faster roll rate, buying pro and adjusting the paddle sim will only make the Heli fell quicker off center, kinda like expo.
The agility slider in the pro software still only works within the defined control loop. So when you increase the end points in the Express software, you are affectively increasing the roll and flip rate (depending on which value you change). There also is a possibility of over driving the system if you go too far so be judicious.
FB blades are a good option as well but that costs more than the pro upgrade so not a good monetary option.

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-13-2014 05:02 AM  4 years agoPost 9
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Oh yeah, should have said endpoints (express) or agility (pro), same thing. Thanks for correcting me. Point is if it's no longer having an effect, that's where pro is useful.

Utahbob, you'd have to go more than 2300 to get what you are looking for but generally not recommended on that bird. You could also try some expo in the tx but that has never felt right for me. Pro really is the best solution. New blades is an option that might help a bit but kinda a silly idea, unless you want to wait for the next dumb thumb.
Secondly, upping the HS will always make a Heli quicker and have move collective pop.
Yes, we know. And it'll give it more cyclic performance as well. Point is if it already has sufficient collective performance and we can up the cyclic using the pro features, it'll be more efficient. See what I'm saying? Goal is to balance both.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-13-2014 06:21 AM  4 years agoPost 10
3dgimble

rrKey Veteran

Rochester

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Nothing on the express software holds back the maximum flip or roll rate.
Cyclic depends mostly on the type of blades and RPM you use. If that is not a good combination for the heli, increasing the agility won't do anything but make the heli skittish off center stick.
^
+1

In other words you can get away with Express.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-13-2014 01:46 PM  4 years agoPost 11
doug p

rrApprentice

blaine mn USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Try putting changing the expo in the tx, don't slow things down around center stick speed them up! it will cost nothing.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
03-13-2014 01:55 PM  4 years agoPost 12
ChristianM

rrVeteran

Oslo, Norway

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If you have maxed out the Agility slider to 121 then you can go beyond that by typing in the value you want and hitting Enter. I have done this on my 450 and it works like a charm. If you are not geting the roll rate you want after that then there is something mechanical holding you back. First thing to try is to move the balls out on the servo arm and redo the vbar setup.

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-13-2014 02:27 PM  4 years agoPost 13
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Oh yeah, should have said endpoints (express) or agility (pro), same thing. Thanks for correcting me. Point is if it's no longer having an effect, that's where pro is useful.
Maybe I am at a loss but please tell me where in the Pro software where you can increase the flip and roll rate past the maximum endpoints that does not exist in the Express software?
When you said this:
Upping head speed is a better suggestion if you are looking for more collective performance...not so good a suggestion for just upping cyclic.
I replied with this:
Secondly, upping the HS will always make a Heli quicker and have move collective pop. There is simply more leverage for the FBL system to work with.
To which you replied this:
Yes, we know. And it'll give it more cyclic performance as well.
So which is it? I was trying to give the gentleman options. There is always a trade off. Nothing is free…even with VBAR

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-14-2014 03:02 AM  4 years agoPost 14
utahbob

rrVeteran

St. George Utah

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

express or pro
Thanks guy's for the help; no need to get in a tussle over my bumbling attempts to get my heli goin--it usually takes me a couple of months with a flybarred model to get them flyin right; I think I'm really close to having this thing flying the way I like so I don't see the need for more bells and whistles! again thanks!

I do a great decending funnel!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-14-2014 05:49 AM  4 years agoPost 15
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Have you tried upping the end points on your aileron and elevator channels on your transmitter as mentioned above?

- John

RR rules!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-14-2014 05:52 AM  4 years agoPost 16
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hey, it's a pleasure.
I hear you though. It's a shame they gotta complicate it and add cost to make it easy to make it fly the way you like it. But, there are other ways and you can always enjoy the tweaking.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 906 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsV-Bar › don't wanna go pro
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 5  Topic Subscribe

Saturday, November 17 - 3:47 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online